Machine doubts

Acrid

Member
Join Date
Oct 2017
Location
Guadalajara
Posts
5
I have some time working in a big project that it's almost complete. The machine is already been used un production with minor issues from time to time due to some tolerances in raw material.

I have been working on reducing the time cycle to make it comply with the specs required from costumer. Since the machine is already producing, they don't like the idea of stoping it for too long to let me do program tests and debuging of sequence changes.

Now the costumer are pressuring me to finish with the reduction of the time cycle and some other pending issues.

What can i do? I'm planning on kind of kidnap the machine, don't letting them produce until a finish with the tests or everything they are requering me to finish.

I fear this would make the hell burn, but i can't see any other option. So any recomendation will be greatly apreciated.

I fear i will summon hell over me by doing this, but i can't see any other option. So any recomendation will be greatly apreciated.
 
Have a meeting with management, explain your concerns, if they don't let you do; then go back until they have time to let you finish the job.
 
Meet with management and tell them you cannot finish the job if they won't let you have the machine.

if they won't give it to you, have them sign off on the machine as is.
then get a po when they ask you to come fix the issues.
1/3 up front.

as an alternative, can you do online edits to fix the machine?
can't the timers (if that is the issue) be changed online?

regards,
james
 
Hello James, thanks for you responce. I have been working on it offline and making changes online, there are some major changes in sequences that needs to be tested, and some parameters in some controllers that need to be changed, and I have to stop normal production to do that. The timer can be changed online (it's a compactlogix).

The plant manager already know we need time to test, i think they are doing their job and are looking only at the numbers, the production, and want the machine within specification.
Until now I was working in a parallel sequence that can be exchanged whit the original toggling a bit, to be able to go back in case I need to without having to load a backup to the PLC.

Any way, I thing I will let them the costumer know when I need to do some testing and debugging so they could prepare for it, if they don't let me then I will go up to the manager. I know that if I stop it without notice, there will be someone in no time asking me why the machine is stoped, and pressuring me to make it work again.

Regards
 
Sounds like you're more rewriting than adjusting. You have only painful choices from this point if you solve it by automation I'm afraid.

One download there is surely time for, but you need more?
 
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Sounds like you're more rewriting than adjusting. You have only painful choices from this point if you solve it by automation I'm afraid.

One download there is surely time for, but you need more?

You are right, I had to rewrite, and split some routines. And it isn't the time for the program download only, I need to test all the changes to make sure there won't be any issues later. It if they start to pressure me to finish to restart production, I will need to revert all the changes in case I couldn't figure out what's wrong in the code. Just in case.

Have they paid you for the machine yet?

1 of 3, they were supoused to make the second payment after validation, they are already producing with the machine so you could say it is validated and their excuse is that the cycle time is out of specs, and there are some features that haven't been implemented yet.
 
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1 of 3, they were supoused to make the second payment after validation, they are already producing with the machine so you could say it is validated and their excuse is that the cycle time is out of specs, and there are some features that haven't been implemented yet.

I can see a nasty situation coming where they get a machine that's almost good for them, at a much reduced price, by refusing to make further payments.

If they haven't signed for the machine yet, or made final payments, IMHO you have every right to demand as much time as you need to finish it to their satisfaction.

They cannot justify abducting it for production, at the same time whingeing they want it speeded up and finished. They are not playing fair, making money out of the machine, and not paying you....
 
I can see a nasty situation coming where they get a machine that's almost good for them, at a much reduced price, by refusing to make further payments.

If they haven't signed for the machine yet, or made final payments, IMHO you have every right to demand as much time as you need to finish it to their satisfaction.

They cannot justify abducting it for production, at the same time whingeing they want it speeded up and finished. They are not playing fair, making money out of the machine, and not paying you....

I agree entirely with this.

In fact if they won't pay cause it's not in spec. I would honestly stop production for my download now and take as much time as I needed. Unless of course the delivered time has passed by but even then. They are making money off the machine even if it's not quite to the project spec's. If there is someone in your company above you to talk to make it happen. If your the boss/owner. Well also make it happen. Lol
 
I agree entirely with this.

In fact if they won't pay cause it's not in spec. I would honestly stop production for my download now and take as much time as I needed. Unless of course the delivered time has passed by but even then. They are making money off the machine even if it's not quite to the project spec's. If there is someone in your company above you to talk to make it happen. If your the boss/owner. Well also make it happen. Lol

Certainly the delivery time has passed. I have the same reasoning about them making money off the machine. They are fearing we aren't going to give support once they have paid, that's understood, until now we have been working on solve every issue that has shown.

As some of you suggested, i will try to be as polite as posssible, trying to talk before hand with the management leting them know what i need in order to complete the work, and do everything i can to finish it in the best possible way.

Thanks for your responces, it have been an stressful project
 
I hate these kind of situations. It usually happens when the machine builder ships the machine before its proven out for quality, or production rate, or full functionality, or because its late - or all four. Sorry you're in this pickle.
 
I see you took into account of testing all your changes which is very good. But in order to revert them easily that you worried about, do you have a program copy of the old "delivered" version?
 
Why did you let them run production without signing a sheet saying that they accept that milestone leaving them the final stages of payment to be done at which point it would be easier (not to be confused with easy) to just up and leave?

I'm not sure of who you work for, but they should be the ones trying to sort this problem out as it will also depend on how the contracting was done, local laws, etc... you probably aren't aware of this and therefore they are better suited to deal with it.
As for yourself, I would probably stop working on the machine altogether particularly if something is broken or not to their liking...

I was in a similar position where the company took over the system I was upgrading without it being completed or even proven to work and started operating it.

When I realised this, I highlighted the fact that I wasn't finished and the machine they had was not tested fully and therefore was putting the lives of the people on site at stake as well as risking an environmental disaster. They didn't cared and I called my manager to explain the situation.
Basically he told me to get out as my work was done when they took over the machine without it being finished so they are responsible.
I did and while on my layover they were already in trouble and looking for me to get me back.

Basically they complained that the job was not complete and that someone had to go over and fix it free of charge, to which my company told them that they were operating with a machine that wasn't proven, they were notified that it wasn't tested and took over anyway, thus accepting the machine as is to be in a good condition. If they don't pay the remainder of the invoice, the company will have to contact their corporate office and quite likely escalate this all the way to the top of their organization. Any more work to be done will be done so on a separate PO.
I refused to go back, but my colleague that went over was quite happy with how he was treated.
 
I hate these kind of situations. It usually happens when the machine builder ships the machine before its proven out for quality, or production rate, or full functionality, or because its late - or all four. Sorry you're in this pickle.

That's what happened our client cut down the time for the project, and we needed to finish the machine in their facilities.

I see you took into account of testing all your changes which is very good. But in order to revert them easily that you worried about, do you have a program copy of the old "delivered" version?

i made a backup for any major changes, documenting them the best i could

Why did you let them run production without signing a sheet saying that they accept that milestone leaving them the final stages of payment to be done at which point it would be easier (not to be confused with easy) to just up and leave?

I'm not sure of who you work for, but they should be the ones trying to sort this problem out as it will also depend on how the contracting was done, local laws, etc... you probably aren't aware of this and therefore they are better suited to deal with it.
As for yourself, I would probably stop working on the machine altogether particularly if something is broken or not to their liking...

Now that you mention it, thats what we should have done since the begining, stat that the machine wasn't complete, and take responsibility of the machine if they were going to use it for production.

Our manager is dealing with the situation, the only thing for me to do is take it easy, and do my job
 

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