Allen Bradley motion training.

Elcan

Lifetime Supporting Member
Join Date
Apr 2008
Location
NC
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Hello all,
I'd appreciate your recommendations about this topic.
I'm very experienced with RSLogix 5000, but I need to learn about motion in general, and in particular using Allen Bradley Kinetix. I'll apply it in existing and coming projects at my new workplace.

I'd prefer to learn it by myself, and for free or at a low cost, so if anybody knows about good tutorials or books, that would be great. I haven't found much in this area, though.

On the paid side, I'm pondering attending these Allen Bradley classes:
1) Motion Control Fundamentals: CCN130, $1,274.
2) Studio 5000 Logix Designer Level 4: Kinetix® 6500 (CIP) Programming: CCN144, $2,090.
Do them worth the money?

I'm also considering buying this Allen Bradley trainer:
Rstrainer for RSLogix 5000 Software - Motion: 9393-RSTLX5KMOT, $380.
Does this trainer work as a substitute of the Motion Control Fundamentals class?

I'm open to all your ideas.
Thank you!
 
Hello all,
I'd appreciate your recommendations about this topic.
I'm very experienced with RSLogix 5000, but I need to learn about motion in general, and in particular using Allen Bradley Kinetix. I'll apply it in existing and coming projects at my new workplace.

I'd prefer to learn it by myself, and for free or at a low cost, so if anybody knows about good tutorials or books, that would be great. I haven't found much in this area, though.

On the paid side, I'm pondering attending these Allen Bradley classes:
1) Motion Control Fundamentals: CCN130, $1,274.
2) Studio 5000 Logix Designer Level 4: Kinetix® 6500 (CIP) Programming: CCN144, $2,090.
Do them worth the money?

I'm also considering buying this Allen Bradley trainer:
Rstrainer for RSLogix 5000 Software - Motion: 9393-RSTLX5KMOT, $380.
Does this trainer work as a substitute of the Motion Control Fundamentals class?

I'm open to all your ideas.
Thank you!


Personally I haven't tried RSTtrainer. But I have taken CCN130, and it's ALL about the MATH. There are minor lessons in some of the functions of the software as to controlling servo motors manually and such, but I think most of the lessons revolve around algebra and figuring out acceleration, deceleration, constant velocity and jerk. LOTS of math, and I think they go through it way too quickly. There is useful information offered in this class, it's a good place to get your feet wet, kind of 'get you off the ground' if you will...I just think they should include more. It doesn't get you very far 'off the ground.'

I've been waiting for CCN144 to come back around again, as I would also like to take it. I found it offered near me once, just to find out that CCN130 is a prerequisite and I haven't found it in my area again since.
 
Personally I haven't tried RSTtrainer. But I have taken CCN130, and it's ALL about the MATH. There are minor lessons in some of the functions of the software as to controlling servo motors manually and such, but I think most of the lessons revolve around algebra and figuring out acceleration, deceleration, constant velocity and jerk. LOTS of math, and I think they go through it way too quickly.
In my personal case, I don't need to learn the math, since I'm very familiar with the math that describes a motion.

There is useful information offered in this class, it's a good place to get your feet wet, kind of 'get you off the ground' if you will...I just think they should include more. It doesn't get you very far 'off the ground.'
I've been trying to learn by myself, reading stuff, studying the machines at my job, etc., so I think I already have my feet wet. :)
That's why I was considering skipping CCN130 and going directly to CCN144, maybe using the RSTrainer before attending.

I've been waiting for CCN144 to come back around again, as I would also like to take it. I found it offered near me once, just to find out that CCN130 is a prerequisite and I haven't found it in my area again since.

The pre-requisites for CCN144 are:
• Completion of the Motion Control Fundamentals course
(Course No. CCN130) or equivalent knowledge of Kinetix®
6500 drives, feedback devices, and servo motion systems

• Completion of the Studio 5000 Logix Designer
Level 3: Project Development course (Course No. CCP143)
or equivalent experience

Therefore, CCN130 is not a hard requirement for CCN144.

Thank you for your comments!!!!
 
so ...

if the "math" isn't the issue - then I assume you want to know more about how the various instructions work (MAM, MAJ, etc.) ...

if that's the case, then I recommend that you set up two Virtual Axes and start playing around with the code ...

the best way that I've found to do that is to set up two identical instructions (I put mine in series on a rung) ... then you can easily trend the Actual Position, the Velocity, the Acceleration, etc. of both of your axes ... as long as the settings of the two instructions stay identical, then the two trend lines should be superimposed ...

now then ...

change the "Jerk" setting, etc. on ONE axis - and run the trend again ... you should be able to see exactly how each setting alters the performance of the system ...

here's a previous post as an example ...

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?p=676568&postcount=2
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your reply, Ron.
so ...

if the "math" isn't the issue - then I assume you want to know more about how the various instructions work (MAM, MAJ, etc.) ...

if that's the case, then I recommend that you set up two Virtual Axes and start playing around with the code ...
Yes, I want to get familiar with the motion instructions, definitely. However, isn't there much more to learn than knowing how those instructions work? I'm starting almost from zero, so bear with me. :)
Are you suggesting that I shouldn't spend money in the Allen Bradley classes and trainer?

the best way that I've found to do that is to set up two identical instructions (I put mine in series on a rung) ... then you can easily trend the Actual Position, the Velocity, the Acceleration, etc. of both of your axes ... as long as the settings of the two instructions stay identical, then the two trend lines should be superimposed ...

now then ...

change the "Jerk" setting, etc. on ONE axis - and run the trend again ... you should be able to see exactly how each setting alters the performance of the system ...

here's a previous post as an example ...

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?p=676568&postcount=2
I would like to follow this advise, no matter if I end up attending AB classes.
I found 4 motion simulators for sale on the TW Controls website:
https://www.theautomationstore.com/search.php?search_query=motion&section=product
Which one would be the one I should purchase?
 
I would like to follow this advise, no matter if I end up attending AB classes.

yes, that would be my advice ... that approach would give you a chance to practice any skills that you learn in the class ...

I found 4 motion simulators for sale on the TW Controls website ... Which one would be the one I should purchase?

it would be best to talk with Tim (TW himself) about that ... he's "good folks" and always willing to help with those sorts of questions ...

it's very rare that I have to cover anything about motion control - so take what I say next with the proverbial grain of salt ... (these simulators are new products that I haven't researched) ...

as far as I know, you won't need any of the simulators - as long as you stay with the "virtual axis" idea ... where these simulators might come into play is when you have a motion control module (actual 1756- hardware) - and need something in the field to "wire up" to provide signals between the "field" and your ControlLogix system ...

here's a link showing (obviously) an older model device that I bought from TW about six years ago ... I'm guessing (pretty sure) that the specific model that you'd need to purchase would depend on what ControlLogix hardware you'd be using for your experiments ...

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?p=511501&postcount=1

this worked perfectly for my purposes - of demonstrating how the field signals in a motion control system get processed ...
 
Last edited:
where these simulators might come into play is when you have a motion control module (actual 1756- hardware) - and need something in the field to "wire up" to provide signals between the "field" and your ControlLogix system ...

Agree, these work great when hardwired into the cards, they will give you a feedback to simulate the motor/encoder

We sell more of the 24v then any others https://www.plccable.com/plc-servo-axis-simulator-and-tester-a-must-for-motion-programming-24vdc/
 
sorry to leave you out of the discussion, Mark (geniusintraining) ... I keep forgetting that you and Tim (TWControls) work so closely together ...

for all who don't already know:

Tim and Mark are BOTH "good folks" ...
 

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