automation for tractors ...

A number of years ago, when I owned "my first microwave oven"..a Toshiba... the internal light went pop, and being the good engineer I was, I wanted to replace it..so I phoned them, in case it was anything special inside..

"oh no, they said, to replace the lamp you have to take the oven's cover off and then that has the potential to leak microwaves, which are dangerous, if you don't put the cover back properly.It has to be done by one of our service engineers"

"but I am an electrical engineer - I can do these things properly"...

"well, we need you to prove that you are an electrical engineer"..

so I had to drop them a letter (no email then!) proving my qualifications, then they sent me 2 replacement lamps (which were nothing special, but I did not want to go through the hassle twice)..and in a few minutes the job was done.

Microwave is long gone now......anyone want to buy a replacement lamp?

IMO oem suppose to provide separate accessing to software/hardware
one configuration for owner and one for OEM.

I'll just always see it as if someone buys hardware, it's theirs to do with as they please; they own it. If the manufacturer wants to say "if you don't use our software, the warranty is void" then fine, that's understandable. But if I want to load other software, it's my damn hardware that I bought.

I charge for design so the software is property of my customer and is delivered at the end of the project. If the contract for the machine did not include a software design charge then it remains my intellectual property and I'll choose to share the source with the customer or not.

I have read this with interest but I have to wonder what the truth really is.
The auto industry lost that battle in federal court years ago.
If a special tool or equipment is needed to repair any auto, it must be available to the general public.
Ask any mechanic that’s how I found out. I can’t imagine that farm equipment manufactures would be exempt.
Also keep in mind that most of the bigger farm equipment is on a lease plan. Lease for 5 years or so and then get new equipment and a new lease. The lease may have a provision that only authorized dealers can do the repairs. The lockout would be a way to insure that the repair complies with the lease agreement. With millions of dollars on the line the dealers will get out there real quick, 24 hours a day service. If it’s leased they will have to pay for down time and lost income to the farmer.
If it is still under the original warranty only an authorized dealer can repair it without breaking the warranty.
I have known of dealers that chartered a plane to deliver parts to avoid the penalties for down time.
There is a lot more to consider then just what is posted.
Agro business in the US is a huge and demanding business for everybody involved.
I don’t think we are getting the full story and I don’t think we ever will.

GaryS said:

I don’t think we are getting the full story and I don’t think we ever will.

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..As is always the case. GaryS you bring up a good point about this issue being driven by the terms of a lease, etc.

I think what makes this an interesting discussion for us on this board is that we are a group, by and large, of able-minded people very willing to modify, repair, and do what we will with our property. Many of us get paid to provide this as a service to our customers and employers. Who is some company to tell me I don't own the property I just bought, free to do with it as I please. And maybe, in a way, ownership of personal property is being threatened and how ownership is defined is being brought into question?

To me this really appears to be a business model of perpetual income throughout the life cycle of a product. Yes, autonomous vehicles that get hacked by just anybody (I got nothing against the great people of Ukraine) could pose a public risk, but what's that got to do with the transmission?

Being about tractors, I bought a new Kubota L3540 HST with FEL in 2007. Wish I never spent the money.

AGill said:

Who is some company to tell me I don't own the property I just bought, free to do with it as I please. And maybe, in a way, ownership of personal property is being threatened and how ownership is defined is being brought into question?

To me this really appears to be a business model of perpetual income throughout the life cycle of a product. Yes, autonomous vehicles that get hacked by just anybody (I got nothing against the great people of Ukraine) could pose a public risk, but what's that got to do with the transmission?

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The other side is that years of experience of what works and what doesn't can be implemented in software that drives a machine. Give away the software you give away the wealth of experience. The company that I work for does not give the source code with the machines for this reason. We do often give support, small improvements and fixes for free and we don't charge stupid money to improve or upgrade things. Customers do not complain, instead keep coming back. I think the level of support we keep giving after commissioning is a big factor in returning business.

Most of our customers have no problem with not having the source code. If they do we say they don't get the source code for Windows or Office either.

padees said:

Being about tractors, I bought a new Kubota L3540 HST with FEL in 2007. Wish I never spent the money.

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What's FEL?
Why the buyer's regret?

danw said:

What's FEL?

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I think that would be a Front End Loader:

While the article is talking about cracking the john deere software, I'm not. I'm for a company's software being their own IP. I'm saying that if I want to make my own software for my own equipment I should be able to. Manufacturers are trying to prevent loading of your own software, not just illegal copies of theirs. That's the wrong part.

Epy said:

While the article is talking about cracking the john deere software, I'm not. I'm for a company's software being their own IP. I'm saying that if I want to make my own software for my own equipment I should be able to. Manufacturers are trying to prevent loading of your own software, not just illegal copies of theirs. That's the wrong part.

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And this is nothing new either... Microsoft has done everything in their power to make the installation of another OS in a computer virtually impossible without breaking "rules" or warranties and yet... no one complained before.

People most certainly have complained before. Linux community has been up in arms about UEFI boot ****. Happens that no one cares what computer geeks get upset about, but it made more of an impact when farmers got upset

John Deere make great products. I just with they'd fire their lawyers. The lawyers keep coming up with ways to make the life of farmers harder

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

John Deere and GM lost this particular lobby, but they are still trying. I don't expect that they will stop unless something involving CASH - like farmers who stop buying their equipment because what they are doing is EVIL? Or no one buying GM vehicles because what they are doing is EVIL? - brings them to their senses.

Sorry for the politics - but it is John Deere's and GM's decision to install software. If I buy the vehicle, I should OWN it.

padees said:

Wish I never spent the money.

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You are the first I have heard that regrets spending money on a tractor... I have a 4 in one bucket and love it, it has helped me so many times that without it I could of never got it done