Red Lion G304K vs. Allen-Bradley PanelView 300 Micro

OkiePC

Lifetime Supporting Member
Join Date
Mar 2005
Location
ENE of Nowhere Oklahoma
Posts
11,757
I updated the controls on an old pallet wrap machine and went with the PV300 micro, since we already use them in 5 other locations. It's main function is to adjust the number of wraps for the bottom and top of the pallet, and reporting machine status is a "nice to have" feature too. The OEM controls were four buttons and two 7 segment LED displays....which I now wish I had not tossed out...

I haven't even finished the machine, and the PV300 has died...

twice...

I think the humidity of the room during sanitation is to blame. The first one was doa, so I chalked it up to mfg defect, but the 2nd one worked for a day, and was dead the next.

I talked to a/b about failure analysis and conformal coatings but the other five places we use these things also see a high failure rate.

I want to try out a Red Lion HMI. I have downloaded the software and I am not too worried about learning it and the programming of it.

I'd like to get a trial unit from Red Lion in order to test it in our environment before we make the switch for all six installations.

Questions:
1. Should I contact my distributor or Red Lion directly about a demo unit?

2. Can I install the G304K on a DH485 network through NET-AIC modules? If yes, what cable(s) do I need?

3. Any comments on any small HMI product and its reliability in these conditions:
30-40 degrees F during production.
80-90 degrees F during production with 90% humidity from washing adjacent machines. (the pallet wrapper does not get washed, but there may be splatter or mist on the exterior).

Thanks,
Paul
 
Last edited:
2. Can I install the G304K on a DH485 network through NET-AIC modules? If yes, what cable(s) do I need?

3. Any comments on any small HMI product and its reliability in these conditions:
30-40 degrees F during production.
80-90 degrees F during production with 90% humidity from washing adjacent machines. (the pallet wrapper does not get washed, but there may be splatter or mist on the exterior).

Hey Paul,

I will try this weekend with an AIC if I get time then I can also let you know about the cables, the 304 has one serial port its a split DB9, 485 and 232...

Not sure about the conditions, in the manual 0-45 Deg C and 10-90% humidity

I started selling a trainer with them and just started to play with it and they are GREAT!! :)
 
Have you programmed the G3's before ?

I have used G308's with AIC+ to Abs but not the K's

Post if you need advice ;)
 
Update:

My distributor is coming over Tuesday and it is my understanding that they intend to get me a demo unit.

I read about the cables and looked at some pre-made cables. I did not see an inexpensive splitter, only the one with a USB converter built in. I don't see any reason I can't fab. my own cable for the G304K. I don't need the USB, just split the serial from the G304K out to the Micrologix, and a DB9F, right?

I will still probably have to add the 1761-CBL-PM02 for now until GIT adds a splitter for the G304K to the Micrologix mini-DIN plus a DB9 for the programming port to his line-up.

Anyone see any problem with making my own cable?

I have started converting my PB32 app to C2. I set up the comms and created the tags (there are only 27 total).

I am having a small bit of trouble translating a message box with LSB as the trigger into C2. It is the only complex object in this app, so I that's where I started, and stopped yesterday.

I tried using a Multi-Text object, and assigning decimal values to the trigger tag which is a signed integer. C2 won't let me put in a negative value for the state values. I guess I need to use the unsigned equivalent? This only applies to one of the sixteen states of the display, but it made me question whether I am using the right stuff...I tried a multi tag first, but had the same problem with the sign, so I switched to a normal integer. I'll attach the files...

The software looks like it is loaded with power and I can foresee using more of their other models if this one works out well. The gateway functionality and having multiple comm ports, even in this little $400 unit could do a lot to simplify some of the strange set-ups we have in several areas.

I am very impressed with how well the staff at Red Lion have responded to get my business. Kudos to all of you.

Paul
 
Last edited:
I believe that Crimson handles all of its variables as 32-bit, so if you force it to treat your PLC register as unsigned, then you should be able to use the Multi tag with all 16 bits (unless you are already using a Long register). But what if more than one bit is on at a time? If this can occur in the PLC then the Multi tag won't work because I'm assuming you are only defining states for single bits being on, i.e. 0,1,2,4,8,...32768. If you are able/willing to modify the PLC program, you could add an ENC instruction to look for the LSB and store its position in a different register; in that case you would only need states 0-15 in the Multi tag. This could also be done in Crimson but I don't believe there is a built-in function like ENC so it would require a little programming.
 
Paul,

The CBLSK000 is a three way cable that splits out the comms port and programming port from that single connector.

The CBLUSB23 includes the USB converter cable and the CBLSK000 splitter. You probably looked at the price of the CBLUSB23. If you don't have a serial port on your PC, and no coverter, you'll only need to acquire one CBLUSB23.


Jesse
 
I will still probably have to add the 1761-CBL-PM02 for now until GIT adds a splitter for the G304K to the Micrologix mini-DIN plus a DB9 for the programming port to his line-up.

Anyone see any problem with making my own cable?


Hey Paul,

Use the Crimson 3 software... it may have more of the features you are looking for www.Crimson3.com so far I like it :)

I can make you the cable... send me an email, if you want to make it there is a typing error in the manual, look at the online manual and its fine http://www.redlion.net/Products/Groups/OperatorInterface/G304K/Docs/07040.pdf

It does not look like I will have time to try the AIC any time soon

Mark
 
Hi Paul, Have you considered "Proface". Not sure what prices and support are like in US, but they are excelent in UK. I have used there products in some very extreme enviroments with no failures.

Regards.

Shaun.
 
Paul,

The CBLSK000 is a three way cable that splits out the comms port and programming port from that single connector.

The CBLUSB23 includes the USB converter cable and the CBLSK000 splitter. You probably looked at the price of the CBLUSB23. If you don't have a serial port on your PC, and no coverter, you'll only need to acquire one CBLUSB23.


Jesse

Thanks, Jesse. So the CBLSK000 plus my 1761-CBL-PM02 should take care of everything, right? I did not find a pinout of that cable, but the price is good at $41...

GIT said:
Use the Crimson 3 software... it may have more of the features you are looking for www.Crimson3.com so far I like it

I can make you the cable... send me an email, if you want to make it there is a typing error in the manual, look at the online manual and its fine http://www.redlion.net/Products/Grou...Docs/07040.pdf
I just sent them a request for the C3 password.

I will likely just buy the cable above and add the ML1000 programming cable to it, and post the pinout here after I have tested it. I don't know of any other applications I have that will be a direct connection to a Micrologix mini-din, but I would expect that there may be some demand for that.

vernon1 said:
Hi Paul, Have you considered "Proface". Not sure what prices and support are like in US, but they are excelent in UK. I have used there products in some very extreme enviroments with no failures.

Regards.

Shaun.

If there (Proface) ST 4.3" unit is less than $400 including software, then I would consider it for this application, but Red Lion is leading the pack right now on cost and customer support.

A/B still has not responded to my inquiry about conformal coating and doing a failure analysis of the PV300 I returned to them under warranty. They will probably call me about a week after I am done with this little project...and it will be too late...
 
Hi Paul, Have you considered "Proface". Not sure what prices and support are like in US, but they are excelent in UK. I have used there products in some very extreme enviroments with no failures.

Regards.

Shaun.

I have used both and redlion wins on all counts for me here in the uk.

I have not had a RL screen fail yet and some are in severe places like sea water pump rooms, robot paint shops, rubber presses, plastics factory (glass fibres) etc
 
Paul,

The CBLSK will break out the single port into two, speeding up development time. However, since the PLC end of the SK cable brings out 232 and 485, the pinout probably won't work out for you.

For a connection between the G304K and the PLC's cable, you'd use a CBLGEN01, as well as a CBLADK03.

Have a look at...
http://www.redlion.net/Support/Downloads/DeviceDrivers/G3/AllenBradley.html

and...
http://www.redlion.net/Support/TechNotes/HumanMachineInterface/CBLADK.pdf

We developed the various CBLADK adapters so that we could make use of the numerous cables that we already stock. We intend to streamline the connection in 2010 so that you don't need two parts to make the connection.

The CBLSK will allow you to download to the Kadet without having to disconnect and reconnect the PLC cable, but won't be used in the final application.

Jesse
 
If there (Proface) ST 4.3" unit is less than $400 including software, then I would consider it for this application, but Red Lion is leading the pack right now on cost and customer support.

A/B still has not responded to my inquiry about conformal coating and doing a failure analysis of the PV300 I returned to them under warranty. They will probably call me about a week after I am done with this little project...and it will be too late...

Paul
Support alone go with Redlion. I have used the Proface hardware on several jobs. I can't say anything bad about thier product, I can say RL has the service that guys like us need hands down. 90%+ of all of my new jobs will be Redlion. PF still has 1 or 2 feature that I added to the RL wish list. How cool is it that the president of a company is asking us to help? No disrespect Peter N.
 

Similar Topics

Hai, I am newbie to PLC world. I bought a Red Lion G304K model(only 1serial port). I have installed crimson 3 software. I did not find "HMI...
Replies
3
Views
2,442
I am having a problem with downloading to the G304K. I am getting an error messager that reads "No acknowlege from target device". I know that Red...
Replies
2
Views
1,821
I got an sk000 hooked between my serial port (com 4) and an Allen Bradley 1100 and a G304K. When I try to download from Crimson 3 (Send)to a G304K...
Replies
10
Views
3,322
I am trying to communicate between a G304K and a ML 1400. I have the cable to send my program to the G304 but I was told the cable to communicate...
Replies
12
Views
7,843
Hello, I am using a red lion G304K HMI and a STM24QF-3AN stepper motor + drive from applied motion. I am using the applied motion SCL driver for...
Replies
0
Views
3,833
Back
Top Bottom