Pro's n Con's - PANEL PC

NH-Thor

Member
Join Date
Oct 2018
Location
Aarhus
Posts
7
Hi guys,

Do anyone have some experience with swapping out your old HMI for a Industrial Panel PC?


If so, what can you tell me?


- Right now i use AB's Panelview plus 600.

I am thinking about changing because i am playing around with a webcam live feed. but i cant make it work on my panelview.


If you got anything, Pro's and cons please tell me! :)
 
My biggest con is that you are stuck with a windows operating system. (it could be changed but others have their flaws as well). Embedded runtimes are stable and cannot be altered by meddling updates
 
Hi Chud, thanks for the reply, i was wondering if you could tell me a bit more about the "Embedded runtimes are stable and cannot be altered" issue? :)
 
Well on most of the hmi's I have used, they have their own operating system. Created by the manufacturer of the hmi. So its closed off to outside factors like windows updates, viruses that is written for windows/linux operating systems etc. Its stable. There are a lot of pros for using a panel pc but the con i mentioned is always my biggest concern
 
I do this a lot. The only con I can think of is that you have to take extra steps to ensure people don't load random software or change settings. I resolve this by making sure the app takes the full screen, no keyboard, and the app has no easy way to exit to the desktop.

Some will argue the instability of Windows and I would agree if it was 20 years ago, but Window 7 and 10 are very stable as long as you don't install unstable software. In other words, if it is an HMI, then let it be only an HMI and don't let people install any random bits of software. Keep it off a network with internet access and you won't have to worry about Microsoft installing constant updates.

As for pros:

- No more proprietary hardware to have your machine down when it fails and you need to find an exact replacement. Especially when it becomes obsolete

- Many software options. If a particular HMI software doesn't do what you want, the majority of the time you can change the software without buying new hardware

- More hardware options that let you select the amount of processing power you need. I have a few installations where the same HMI applications runs on a panel PC for general use and a tablet for maintenance use.

- Gives you the choice of installing things for features you need such as a database server or remote access software (VNC type software)

- IT is generally more willing to provide help in a pinch because they should be familiar with PC hardware and Windows OS
 
I would agree with most of the stuff written here (both pro's and cons).

Panel PC's are more prone to operators playing games / installing their own stuff / trying to charge their phones from the USBs etc (in my own experience).

Panel PC's sometimes nag you about lack of anti-virus software / lack of firewall even in a closed environment which can be annoying.

Panel PC's are harder to get hold of when they are old and so you are left with a panel cutout (assuming it's embedded into a panel) that needs a plate fitting - then recutting - in order to house a different type.

On the other hand...

You can 'ghost' a panel PC and if it fails go to a local PC shop, pick up any (most) PCs and have the system back up and running again (we keep a laptop that has the same software on it so it can be plugged in as an emergency backup in the event of failure).

A panel PC is a LOT more flexible with what you can run on it.

You get a much bigger bang for your buck with a panel PC - lots more memory and CPU power for the same cost as a normal HMI.
 
Archie, thank you for that reply, a lot of good augments there! :D Do you have some "go to" panel pc's ?
We have our own line of panel PCs that I exclusively use, but they are only available in North America. I always recommend to find a PC that is completely solid state. No cooling fans and a solid state hard drive. I prefer SATA hard drives because they are readily available and there are plenty of easy to find accessories for them such as USB adapters.
 
Panelview Plus's uses windows CE, and is just as vulnerable as a panel PC if you don't install all the latest patches on it.

Same with most other HMIs - they will be running a linux kernel or Windows Embedded which will be susceptible to the latest security vulnerabilities if you don't patch the firmware.

I would argue dumb HMIs are more susceptible to cyber attacks than a panel PC that receives regular updates and IT attention than.
 
I do this a lot. The only con I can think of is that you have to take extra steps to ensure people don't load random software or change settings. I resolve this by making sure the app takes the full screen, no keyboard, and the app has no easy way to exit to the desktop.

Some will argue the instability of Windows and I would agree if it was 20 years ago, but Window 7 and 10 are very stable as long as you don't install unstable software. In other words, if it is an HMI, then let it be only an HMI and don't let people install any random bits of software. Keep it off a network with internet access and you won't have to worry about Microsoft installing constant updates.

As for pros:

- No more proprietary hardware to have your machine down when it fails and you need to find an exact replacement. Especially when it becomes obsolete

- Many software options. If a particular HMI software doesn't do what you want, the majority of the time you can change the software without buying new hardware

- More hardware options that let you select the amount of processing power you need. I have a few installations where the same HMI applications runs on a panel PC for general use and a tablet for maintenance use.

- Gives you the choice of installing things for features you need such as a database server or remote access software (VNC type software)

- IT is generally more willing to provide help in a pinch because they should be familiar with PC hardware and Windows OS

In addition, to secure it further and make it even more difficult for users to harm the system, modify the registry entry for the shell, have it call the HMI software instead of Explorer.exe (Which is the Windows Shell/GUI), on the user account you have set to auto-logon for the process controls. Then if needed you can bring a Keyboard/Mouse connect it and bring up task manager and run Explorer.exe. or logout of the process user, login to the admin user and the expected windows shell will be there.

You can replace the shell globally or per user.
 
I would agree with most of the stuff written here (both pro's and cons).

Panel PC's are more prone to operators playing games / installing their own stuff / trying to charge their phones from the USBs etc (in my own experience).

Panel PC's sometimes nag you about lack of anti-virus software / lack of firewall even in a closed environment which can be annoying.

Panel PC's are harder to get hold of when they are old and so you are left with a panel cutout (assuming it's embedded into a panel) that needs a plate fitting - then recutting - in order to house a different type.

On the other hand...

You can 'ghost' a panel PC and if it fails go to a local PC shop, pick up any (most) PCs and have the system back up and running again (we keep a laptop that has the same software on it so it can be plugged in as an emergency backup in the event of failure).

A panel PC is a LOT more flexible with what you can run on it.

You get a much bigger bang for your buck with a panel PC - lots more memory and CPU power for the same cost as a normal HMI.

Your best bet these days are the cheap mini-pc's like the IntelNUC, Beelink minis, etc. then just connect to a industrial panel mounted monitor.
 
IT guys tend to treat Windows systems on the network like office PCs and update them without understanding the potential ramifications of breaking something. We use Panel PC's but typically use an embedded O/S like Windows Compact Embedded - has most of the benefits listed by others above (and especially cost), but is protected from viruses and IT. Use an SSD so no moving parts.
 
If running a panel PC for this application I would recommend using it as a kiosk device. There is software out there that can help you do this, then no one can access the PC outside of the application you are running.


Of course if you used a HMI package that worked on a server/http client basis then you could run a non graphical Linux based device, with a headless virtual machine hosting Windows and your chosen HMI package. You would then use a browser to work as the HMI client and run the X server specifically for the browser.


Accessing the virtual machine could be done by using RDP or VNC.
 

Similar Topics

HELLO MY FRİENDS ı have problem. ı tought you can solved thıs problem for me. First of all When I checked all the cable connections of the...
Replies
0
Views
398
Hi, I'm converting a modicon program to allen bradley. I'm hoping someone that knows modicon can help me to understand what is happening on this...
Replies
2
Views
1,545
Hi, I'm translating some old modicon code. First time I've worked with modicon in any deep capacity. Just want to clarify the output operation...
Replies
10
Views
3,866
Hello all, My company have sourced a Modicon M340 PLC with a Magelis (XPT GTO4310) HMI. The intention here is to use this setup in order to...
Replies
6
Views
3,686
Greetings, I'm using Unity Pro v8 (131118) with Modicon M340. I cut my teeth on PLCs with Modicon back in the early 90s but this is my first...
Replies
2
Views
2,643
Back
Top Bottom