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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:10 PM   #1
ERCfarcontrol
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HELP RED LION Graphite won't start

I'm working on a Graphite that is continuously looping through the start up sequence then stops and shows a page that says "system could not start" "touch left to clear, touch right to retry"

This happened after I uploaded a change. When I uploaded, it also automatically updated the firmware.

I'm currently up a creek. HELP!
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERCfarcontrol View Post

I'm currently up a creek.

If the creek has Trout, might just be a blessing...


Yeah, I don't even know where my paddles are...
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:19 PM   #3
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Just boot it back to you know where it worked. Had to do that before.
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:20 PM   #4
ERCfarcontrol
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Not sure what you mean by boot it back?
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ERCfarcontrol View Post
Not sure what you mean by boot it back?

Go back to software that worked. Will change firmware.
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:27 PM   #6
ERCfarcontrol
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Go back to configuration that worked? Or firmware? Not sure how to go back with firmware.
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERCfarcontrol View Post
Go back to configuration that worked? Or firmware? Not sure how to go back with firmware.

Software has firmware, so don't need to deal with that. Use whatever rev of the software that worked.
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:40 PM   #8
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Rev of crimson?

I do not have my configuration before I made the small changes
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Old June 29th, 2020, 06:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERCfarcontrol View Post
Rev of crimson?

I do not have my configuration before I made the small changes
Your change may have been small but the firmware update holds the highest risk.

No backups?
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Old June 29th, 2020, 07:15 PM   #10
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No backups.

The same thing just happened to me on another touch screen that I just started building. It is a very small configuration.

Will uninstalling crimson and reinstalling a previous revision set the firmware back?
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Old June 29th, 2020, 07:38 PM   #11
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Will uninstalling crimson and reinstalling a previous revision set the firmware back?

Yes.
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Old June 29th, 2020, 08:05 PM   #12
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I doubt you need to downgrade firmware, although that might help temporarily. It is likely that the database got corrupted. Load a known valid database image on a the root of a memory card and name it image.ci3

In Crimson software, from the file menu choose File > Save Image, and then it will create a complete image, firmware and all. That is the surest way to recover from an endless reboot cycle. The alternative is to catch the unit when first powering up and click the send button in Crimson (use a USB connection). If your timing is slightly off, try again (power cycle, click send just after the logo screen appears).

Using a valid image.ci3 file on a memory card eliminates the need for perfectly timing the download attempt.

I have done this apx. 3 times in ten years and was always able to recover with one of these methods. One time I had an uh-oh in a program I was calling on startup. One time I had a corrupted database that I fixed by starting a 2nd instance of Crimson and dragging the important and known good parts from the corrupted file into.

I forget the 3rd occurrence, but was something similar.
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Old June 29th, 2020, 10:11 PM   #13
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They must have added it since it's happened to you, but it retries to start the configuration 3 times before it stops itself and displays a page that gives you the option to clear the configuration or retry again. Hit clear and you can start from scratch again, no looping.

I uninstalled crimson, reinstalled older revision, saved my file as older rev, no luck. I have made modifications using the latest rev prior to this instance and had no issues. I must have corrupted something somewhere along the line. I can load a blank or my last known and it starts up just fine. I do have a program called upon on startup. The other configuration that is doing the same thing is quite small, I'll check out it's similarities.
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Old June 30th, 2020, 01:48 PM   #14
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I figured out what was causing the start up issue. I had minimum and maximum tag limits directing toward each other with addition and subtraction. I attached a couple screenshots, maybe I can get some insight as to why this caused the issue.


The tags are On and Off setpoints for starting and stopping based on pressure. The idea behind it was to keep the on setpoint below the off setpoint and the off setpoint above the on setpoint. Am I not entering the expression correctly? Is it because I'm referring the tags in a circle? How would one go about making this possible at the hmi level and not the PLC.
Attached Images
File Type: png minlimit.png (35.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: png maxlimit.png (31.3 KB, 9 views)
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Old June 30th, 2020, 04:07 PM   #15
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I tried creating 2 new general expression tags with the off/on sp arithmetic (that is correctly calculating) and directing those tags for max and min entry limits. It still causes the loop.


To get it right I created 2 programs that run on data box select. They perform the + or - arithmetic and places the result into my entry limit tags. Works great.



So, the problem was continuously directing the min and max entry limits of 2 tags to each other:

--"hi" tag minimum entry directed to "lo" tag value
--"lo" tag maximum entry directed to "hi" tag value


Thanks everyone. Good to know that saving a file with an earlier software revision will also change firmware of device back.
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