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Old February 16th, 2020, 03:25 PM   #1
Sham
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Simulation in Studio5000

Hi All,

Have anyone of you tried simulation in Studio5000, probably for the purpose of FAT? I am facing a situation where one of the senior guys have developed a separate code for simulation (mostly involves copying tag values).

I want to know is it a normal practice? With Schneider Electric, I found their simulator to be quite good. How about studio5000? what has been done by senior guy is a bit of overengineering, or a normal practice?

Thanks
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Old February 16th, 2020, 05:29 PM   #2
chavak
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Not to the purpose of the FAT, that's too extensive I would say, again, it depends of the complexity of your equipment/process.

I used to use it long ago, to verify certain scenario, whether it is functional or not.

As you know, emulator 5K doesn't comes with standard installation, like some other players in the market, I stopped to install it when the PC evolved along the years.
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Old February 16th, 2020, 05:45 PM   #3
Sham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chavak View Post
Not to the purpose of the FAT, that's too extensive I would say, again, it depends of the complexity of your equipment/process.

I used to use it long ago, to verify certain scenario, whether it is functional or not.

As you know, emulator 5K doesn't comes with standard installation, like some other players in the market, I stopped to install it when the PC evolved along the years.
Our system is extremely huge tbh.

I don't get what you mean by "stopped to installed when PC evolved". Is it because that the emulator of Allen Bradley is not good enough, or because of the cost?
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Old February 16th, 2020, 06:44 PM   #4
Phrog30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham View Post
Hi All,

Have anyone of you tried simulation in Studio5000, probably for the purpose of FAT? I am facing a situation where one of the senior guys have developed a separate code for simulation (mostly involves copying tag values).

I want to know is it a normal practice? With Schneider Electric, I found their simulator to be quite good. How about studio5000? what has been done by senior guy is a bit of overengineering, or a normal practice?

Thanks
I embed simulation into AOIs. Then it makes it really easy to simulate a project by toggling one bit. Internal to the AOI, for example, a motor coil sets an aux. Same kind of action on valves, etc.
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Old February 16th, 2020, 07:08 PM   #5
mk42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham View Post
Our system is extremely huge tbh.

I don't get what you mean by "stopped to installed when PC evolved". Is it because that the emulator of Allen Bradley is not good enough, or because of the cost?
From what I've heard, the AB emulator has a lot of gotchas. It only supports certain SW/FW versions (often a couple versions behind the latest major release), and what I recall is that you have to actually replace the CPU in your project with an emulate CPU. To me that defeats the purpose of simulating the CPU.

I've never heard of anybody doing it in AB land, which means that Simulation in general is frowned on in the US, regardless of what other brands can do.

However, for FAT type scenarios, the CPU simulator is only part of the scenario. You usually need separate software to simulate the process. This can sometimes be done in the PLC, but that adds complexity, and is often done easier/quicker/cheaper with an external tool.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 02:12 AM   #6
Paullys50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk42 View Post
From what I've heard, the AB emulator has a lot of gotchas. It only supports certain SW/FW versions (often a couple versions behind the latest major release), and what I recall is that you have to actually replace the CPU in your project with an emulate CPU. To me that defeats the purpose of simulating the CPU.
While RSEmulate doesn't execute 100% like the real thing, neither does anyone else's (if it's running on your computer, it's using your computer's CPU!). There are only a hand full of "gotchas" all which rarely impact the goal of simulation, which is to provide a mechanism to verify your program logic without having to use a physical PLC. For the record, Emulate supports the latest FW versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mk42 View Post
I've never heard of anybody doing it in AB land, which means that Simulation in general is frowned on in the US, regardless of what other brands can do.
I simulate my logic all the time, much like Phrog30 mentioned. My goal is to simulate my code so I have reasonable confidence that it will perform as intended when I arrive at the jobsite.

I have used RSEmulate and Softlogix to do this. But I try to use an actual PLC if I can, mainly because it's easier to connect my SCADA project to the real thing. It's a shame that Rockwell is dropping Softlogix, it was a great platform for integrators to use for testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mk42 View Post
However, for FAT type scenarios, the CPU simulator is only part of the scenario. You usually need separate software to simulate the process. This can sometimes be done in the PLC, but that adds complexity, and is often done easier/quicker/cheaper with an external tool.
Disagree, I have yet to require the actual process to be simulated during testing and/or an FAT. Unless you are performing extensive modeling of the process (Peter Natchtwey can chime in), you simply aren't going to have the time or budget to setup additional software. Adding some basic simulation logic in device-level AOIs is easy.

For my testing, I "simulate" feedback of control devices, including valves, motors, analog inputs and PID loops. Granted, the PID loops are not modeled for tuning purposes, but rather to simulate how the program activates the PID loop, and verify how it will attempt to control to setpoint. Read this whitepaper for some ideas on how to accomplish this.

Having code to aid in simulation/test efforts should be normal practice IMHO.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 02:12 AM   #7
janner_10
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Just for development purposes, it is probably the worst example of a simulation program out there, compared to, say Siemens.

For individual routines or AOI testing, I just use a second hand L16 which sits on my desk.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 12:59 PM   #8
cardosocea
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I think this is going to get confusing if someone doesn't start using simulation and emulation correctly...
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