Ignition 8 Demo

If you need a distributed application and data storage to a central server, then SCADA platforms are the way to go. Gives you much more visibility and control across an entire plant/process then standalone HMIs.

Imagine if you wanted to monitor/control/data collect the following areas:

- Raw Material Receiving (sugar, chocolate chips, water filtration, flour...)
- Processing areas (raw cookie dough batching, cookie baking...)
- Packaging areas (cookie packaging)
- Cleaning Systems

A SCADA system to monitor/control all of these areas is highly valuable. Provides a unified architecture and access.

You can then transition to MES/ERP functionality as well.

If I wanted to control those four areas, I would have an HMI in each area and choose the data I want to collect, but how would the SCADA be any better than this? Both HMI and Scada will only show whatever the user wants it to see, so I could spend less time programming an HMI than on Scada and still get the same amount of information back, or no?

From this picture, I feel the Scada is just an extra tool you don't really need. All it does is combine all your data to one area; maybe saves you time from walking around all the HMIs.

I don't understand the big picture behind scada, so I need more explanation and convincing as to why it's better to have Scada in conjuction with other hmis, then just having a bunch of standalone HMIs.

I'm new to Scada, never seen it or used it, so I'm looking for a great in-depth sales pitch in all honesty, haha :cool:
 
Pretty broad line of questions - lots of reasons, lots of use cases. I'd argue that your diagram looks exactly like SCADA as shown. You can also architect systems in many other ways, some of which would be more scalable - really depends on your requirements.

I recommend requesting a web demo from Inductive Automation for more info. They'll give you a pretty good show and answer questions to see if SCADA is a useful tool for your application.

I find it strange that you'd assert something as "an extra tool that you don't really need", then proceeding to explain that you don't know what it is and have never seen or used it.

From this picture, I feel the Scada is just an extra tool you don't really need. All it does is combine all your data to one area; maybe saves you time from walking around all the HMIs.

I don't understand the big picture behind scada, so I need more explanation and convincing as to why it's better to have Scada in conjuction with other hmis, then just having a bunch of standalone HMIs.

I'm new to Scada, never seen it or used it, so I'm looking for a great in-depth sales pitch in all honesty, haha :cool:
 
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I find it strange that you'd assert something as "an extra tool that you don't really need", then proceeding to explain that you don't know what it is and have never seen or used it.
Doesn't seem too strange to me. If the system he has is functional without it, it's obviously not something required to make his operations function. He doesn't really need to know about something to know that he's getting along without it.


That being said, he also doesn't know what he might be missing..
 
Right, I don't know what I'm missing out on and want to get into the loop. I like asking here cause people explain it in an easy way for me to understand. A lot of websites already have great info, but sometimes use words I don't understand, or explain it in a way that does not make sense to me.

This Scada system is a direct challenge to the way I run my areas, so if it's better, I'll use it, otherwise I'll defend my own method and claim mine to be better and faster. This attitude helps me improve my own skill and area.
 
Fair enough. If your current system meets all your requirements then I wouldn't touch it. I've made that mistake with my home and car audio :p. Out of curiosity, what are you using for your HMI/MMI?

They'll give you a show if you register for a demo with that link. Lots of cool capabilities, particularly if you want to get your data in front of more of the organization.

The context of the earlier conversation was about creating screens with modern web technologies, then accessing HMI/SCADA through a browser. However, this does not need to look like how you're probably picturing it. You could use fixed industrial touch screen stations for control, display dashboards of aggregate information on large screen displays, allow operators to interact with the system via mobile devices (think scan barcodes with a smartphone or view the process in real time on a tablet). You could set everything up to feel embedded (e.g. full screen, no address bars, doesn't look like a consumer browser). The approach has a number of benefits: scales well, is maintained/developed in one place, works with many data sources (devices, databases, etc), and can be secured with modern methodologies.

It's really just another technology approach to visualization. Kind of like watching a movie on Netflix in a browser instead of VLC or Windows Media Player or some other dedicated application for playing video.
 
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Right, I don't know what I'm missing out on and want to get into the loop. I like asking here cause people explain it in an easy way for me to understand. A lot of websites already have great info, but sometimes use words I don't understand, or explain it in a way that does not make sense to me.

This Scada system is a direct challenge to the way I run my areas, so if it's better, I'll use it, otherwise I'll defend my own method and claim mine to be better and faster. This attitude helps me improve my own skill and area.
Perhaps the easiest way to look at it is through the lens of what you are doing now.


Right now, it sounds like you are developing HMIs for use in the local area that they are being used. Alarms configured there, users configured for each area. If I'm off on this, let me know.


Ignition is fundamentally SCADA software, but there's nothing saying you can't use the same software to develop HMI screens. In fact, many people do just that. So, one way to look at it is that you could be developing HMIs with Ignition (you need to develop HMIs anyway), but you gain the advantages of an interconnected system that SCADA brings. One central system to configure users. One central system that can manage phone notifications. And yes, the ability to develop screens that pull information from different areas of the plant so you don't need to walk around to each individual HMI. IMHO, this particular advantage shouldn't be overlooked, although, I admit it is situation dependent.


In our case, we have a relatively small facility (about 12,000 sqft), but the amount of footsteps saved by having one or two screens in strategic locations that you can see what everything in the plant is doing is huge. The operators love being able to check on a machine on the other end of the building.


One of the more recent items we implemented here involved the interconnected-ness of the SCADA system. We have various pieces of batch type equipment, all running different processes. These processes have finish times that are reported on the local HMIs. With our SCADA system, we can pull all the finish time information from all our equipment, sort it by what's going to happen next, and present it in an easy to read summarized list for the operator to see. With a glance, he can know what he will be doing next, and how much time until that happens. You could, of course, walk around to each HMI and see what will be happening in the next hour or two, but seeing a list on a screen is way, way faster.


I'm sure we've just scratched the surface on what this software can do for us. In my opinion, it's way more capable than simple HMI software. Sometimes you can make good use of the capabilities, sometimes they're overkill. Depends on the situation.
 
I'll tack onto what has already been said by brian123 and surferb.

If you only want to control, visualize, and monitor health of local equipment, then full-blown Ignition may well be overkill, in money terms and learning curve (engineering time). Any standalone HMI package may get you up and running cheaper and faster.

If, however, you or your organization has any desire to integrate this machine data into the enterprise systems (Inventory/MES, QA, OEE, Production Reporting, etc), or get valuable real-time data into the hands/brains of the managers and business owners, then you need a SCADA solution.

Companies that aren't using some kind of automated system to get plant-floor data into their production systems do this with data entry. So the process is labor-intensive, and only as good as the operator's honesty and concentration.

The thing about good data, is that it doesn't play politics. It doesn't lie. You just don't know what kind of operational insights you can get, until you start gathering the data.

It's not impossible to get good data out of a standard HMI package, but it will be cumbersome, and each time you try to add a new "SCADA" feature, it's going to cost you more time and money, and pretty soon, you've got a house-of-cards that only you can maintain or improve, and it ends up costing more than if you went with SCADA to begin with.

As industries move more towards fully-automated processes, with fewer operators, IMO SCADA becomes more of a necessity.

If you want to be future-ready, start migrating your operations as much as possible towards SCADA. If you have to, hire a good integrator to help get you up and rolling, and pick their brains so you can get onboard. An HMI may get the current project up and rolling today, but it won't position you for tomorrow.

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