Wow, the Prez speaks

I am really impressed that the president of Red Lion Controls, Mike Granby, personally responded on the Babel thread

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=21333

Maybe he's a regular, I didn't check # of posts, but how refreshing to get an authoritative answer from the source.

Thank you, Mike. That's an impressive show of support for your line.
I'm going to check out the Babel Box.

Dan

Dan

When does support become advertising?

Regards

Ken

It is advertising BUT can you think of a better method? Its good work and good publicity.

Please dont take offense Mike, good work.

Y'all do realize that comments like that may keep the sources away...that what you really want?

Ron

The little yellow grinning thing was meant to indicate a light-hearted and jocular attitude on the part of the author towards the contents of his post! (I've tried using a "!" this time to obtain a similar effect.)

You're quite right: knowledge is what we crave, and product recommendation and explanation is part of that.

Ken

For a member who joined this board in August last year and only has seven posts, I read Mike's post as information, not advertising. It was certainly less of an attempt to sell than others have made on this forum. Before anyone gets their feelings hurt--I don't CARE about the advertising question's right/wrong issue. I just don't see Mike's post as an AD.

Ken has a point about advertising, and I try not to cross that line. I hope I'm successful. The Babel Box question really interested me, though, because it's something I worked on about 12 years ago! What I try to do when posting is make sure if someone has a question about a product of ours, they get an answer, either here, or directly from our of our support engineers. I could dive-in to every HMI thread and recommend our G3, but I think that would be going too far towards promotion, so I'm trying to avoid chiming-in unless Red Lion is already mentioned. Most of the time, I just read: You can get a lot of insight into customers' needs and wants by listening to their discussions.

(Oh, and Dan -- check out the Data Station Plus, rather than the Babel Box. The BB is cool, but it's obsolete, so for new apps, try the DSP.)

Steven Luft once called me the advertising police.

I read the post and it was real borderline to me. My thought is that he represents the "next gen" product and informed the poster that the product he was interested in is obsolete, so it can slide.
In my opinion.
Just like in most cases, Mr. Lufts contributions have been very valuable.

Originally posted by Rick Densing:

I read the post and it was real borderline to me.

Click to expand...

I didn't see it that way. Mike directly answered the question posed in the original post. He actually went out of his way to say that the guys selling the thing are a good group of guys. He then simply provided a better alternative for new projects.

He didn't say the original poster should tear out the Babel Box and replace it. Now THAT would be shameless advertising. He just said there might be a better way.

I guess I see it the same as Ken Roach answering an SLC 5/05 Ethernet question and, at the end, saying 'The next time you do the project look at the CompactLogix L35E'. Granted, in the AB case both products are solidly in the same stable where in the Babel Box case they technically aren't. But they're close.

As Rick said, this question is up for subjective interpretation. Everyone has their own opinion.
Keith

Mike,

I am glad to see that I am not alone here.

To everyone:

Mike did two things.

1. He provided knowledge of an existing product that was specifically asked about.

2. He provided a current option that can be supported.

This would be like me responding to a post that talks about the SK1600-R and stating that you can still get it as a replacement, however, there is a newer version that may better meet your needs.

Why would someone that has this information not share it with the forum? If the Babel is outdated by today's communications standards, why not share what is current technology?

Mike knows more about the products his company offers, so why not encourage him to continue to post.

The major difference with Mike and myself vs. other members, is who we work for and what information we have available to us...and therefore our bias.

Everyone has a bias towards a product.

If someone is looking for options, are we prohibited from mentioning our products as a possible solution because we work for these companies?

There is advertising going on all the time here.

Many people will plug their favorite products. That is a form of advertising...what we would call "free" advertising. If you want to stick by the letter of the law, then that is a no no. However, if there is no sharing of product information, including opinions as to what others currently use or would use, then the impact of this forum is greatly deminished...that is the heart of the law.

Pierre called me out a few years ago. He said you are in a position where you can provide insight as a controls manufacturer that the other manufacturers aren't willing to do. I would think having Mike as a contributor can only benefit the forum.

Regarding Advertising, there is a fine line between support and advertising. I would have to say that it depends on your audience. If your audience is already familiar with the product and is seeking additional information, then it isn't advertising but rather product knowledge advancement.

If they are not familiar with your product, you provided new information that they didn't have prior.

Advertising is making someone aware of something they didn't know existed.

When you post a response to a question, you are not only sharing your knowledge, but you are also advertising your capabilities. (Not a product, but a service) Call it a form of self advertising. This isn't bad, because you may know of the person who has the answer to your question, based on their history of responses.

Mike, I hope you are a frequent contributor.

God Bless,

If I see something as advertisement, then I simply stop reading (maybe). I treat it the same way I treat commercials as I watch TV. If I have any interest in the service or product I may watch it. If I don't have an interest (95% of the time) I do something else during the commercial. It is not worth getting upset about and not worth bashing people for advertising.
If someone constantly "advertises" then I am sure they would either receive a pm or email from Phil asking them to stop. If it continues, their account would probably be deleted.

Woah, stop, desist, cease!

It was a throw-away remark, OK! It was not intended to dig up the bones of a long-buried feud again. I have wondered why we don't get more suppliers and manufacturers dipping in at the water-hole here. It would probably do everyone good to try to understand things from their side of the fence as well.

Ken

Just to be clear... The Babel Box *is* a Red Lion product. Take off that label they've stuck on it, and you'll see a Red Lion logo, or a Paradigm Controls logo, and Red Lion owns Paradigm. It's a great product, and it'll work for many apps. There just aren't many of them available -- we don't make it any more, and the people selling it in the UK says that they've only got a few for sale. If you buy a Babel Box from them, they'll support you, and Red Lion will even provide tech support for you if you want, but we won't be able to sell you another one.

As I re-read, Mike's case is not even borderline. Steven makes a good point. I very much appreciate the contribution of OEM's and Distributors here.

I have had a problem with only one of Mr. Luft's posts in the past, and I apologize for bringing it up.

Hmmmmm,

1 out of 270 = 0.37%

I will try to do better.

I didnt see any advertising here, just some useful help from the manufacturer.