OT: Residential Well Water Treatment

My water quality here has been poor for four years and that must begin to change today. I have very hard iron rich water and it is staining everything. It tastes good, but the sand. How do I stop the sand. I keep a pair of pipe pliers laying on my washing machine because the cold line carries enough enough dirt to slow to a trickle every three loads! My well is about 85' from the house and the pipe enters under the slab at an angle. I pulled the old pump and put in a nice one right after I moved in. It is about 85' deep, and the water table is only 20' down here. I did shorten the depth 5 feet during the upgrade, and installed a torque control "thingy" that expaneds inside the casing to absorb pump start up torque, but I think it still stirs sand every start.

I plan to splice in two sweep elbows, and install a bypass valve and stub today so I can put in a filter/softener later, but I've no experience with them. I am a above average plumber if I take my time, but this has to happen today, and during the week, I can wall-in the front porch, and put some good controls on my water supply.

I think there's a regulator or check valve in the joint now I'll post a pic, but flow is good until it hits the screens in the faucets. I drink from a Watts 1 gal rev. osmosis system and it needs new filters now too.

And I eventually would love to have a way to chlorinate or otherwise sanitize my water.

I don't have a huge budget for this, and I have a really good pressure tank, 5HP pump pushing up to 5GPM at 60PSI.

Are there softeners that self adjust? Can they tolerate iron and sand? Is there a way to pre-filter sand without disposable paper ones every few days in my case?

I want high functioning low maintenance soft water when I am done. Brand recommendations and choice of systems advice needed please.

Paul

Okie

Is this a drilled and cased well or brick lined hand dug?
You have the pump at 80 in an 85 deep well ???

What is the size of the sand particles? You need to know this to determine how fine you have to filter. If you have a good 400 X microscope at work you should be able to get a measurement. You should have a water sample run and analyze for the iron and particle size and may as well do the EPA list of water contaminants also.

If mine
1. If cased do you have a mesh strainer at bottom of casing - is this shot? You may have to have a driller come out to install it. That sand is not doing the pump impellere any good - think sand blasting.
2. If #1 is not financial OK then I would go to Home Depot and buy two of the plastic water filters and enough valves to install change elements on the fly type system. Buy spare cartridges also. Get the plastic wrench for the filter cannisters also - looks flimsy but seems to be pretty durable. Make sure they are clear so you can see when to change em. You can also get stainless screen elements for these from a filter outfit - I would consider this - you should be able to just clean the screen and reinstall. I would do the filters no matter what if only to extend valve life.
3. I would flush my hot water tank for sure - how much sand is at the bottom of that??
4. You could take an old hot water tank and install in cold water line and use that for a gravimetric sand trap but I like the filters better.
5. Whatever that valve in the dirt is - for sure I would not leave it buried and inaccessible.

The iron thing I am not sure about. If that is what is called iron coliform then that is hard to treat - or at least was - reverse osmosis may be able to handle that I am not sure. Just because it is termed iron coliform does not mean this is a disease causing bacteria. Your local public health may be better able to explain that.

If the iron is ionic then a water softener should be able to handle that.

Dan Bentler

I have no experience with home water systems, but a couple minutes of searching online and I found this:
http://www.amazon.com/Culligan-HF-360-Sediment-Filter-Housing/dp/B000BQUPZ8

It seems that "sediment filter" is a good search term.
From what I understand, you want to get rid of the sand/sediment before running the water through a softener or the sand will clog up the resin bed.

Okie

I can relate i have the same problem at my house. You need a backwashing sediment filter to get rid of the sand http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/sediment-filters-backwashing.html we have one that was installed by the well company several years ago with the well. Does not have any useful info on it though.

We also have a whole house water filter and after that a storage tank with UV Sterilizer. With this you don't need chlorine.

We started with the whole house water filter and UV bit i had to clean and replace the cartridge about every 2 weeks at least and sometimes more often depending on use. We installed the sediment filter and that cleared it up. Just have to shovel the sand away from the discharge about every 6 months. Seems better each time though.

Okie

This may be a option also http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/centrifugal-separators.html

It is a centrifugal sand seperator. looks simple and low maintenance.

Great info, guys, I just scanned it on my way to town.

I pulled the well pump once to replace the submersible pump and the casing is PVC, the well is at least 100' deep, and I put back I think about 85' of pipe, which was in good shape, and cleaned the seal, put 2 cups of Chlorox in it, and flushed the line from the well the next day after I let it all settle for 36 hours.

I tried to rinse off the inside of the well casing. THis is where a spray nozzle, and a way to mist some bleach down the hole without breaking the seal would be nice.

The pump required a new controller...didn't look to close when I hooked it up, new wire, waterproof splices, but the breaker at the well head was already adequate. THe pressure switch is set min. 40 max 60, and is that a check valve or pressure regulator in my photo?

I am not sure if I want to mess with it, but I have a feeling I am going to finally use PEX on this project or the latest crimp plumbing that's adequate.

Also, what does "Is it shot?" mean, Dan?

And should I raise my pump (or pull it and stuff a screen down the inside of the casing first)?

I will pull it again for sure this summer and see if the depths of the water line has changed. If my pump is in rough shape, the next one will be 3 phase on a single phase vfd. I think that would do wonders for the sand, elminate water hammer...and probably save money.

http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/FS000040-p-centrifugal-separators.html

I bet I can build one of these...what's inside?

OkiePC said:

Also, what does "Is it shot?" mean, Dan?

And should I raise my pump (or pull it and stuff a screen down the inside of the casing first)?

I will pull it again for sure this summer and see if the depths of the water line has changed. If my pump is in rough shape, the next one will be 3 phase on a single phase vfd. I think that would do wonders for the sand, elminate water hammer...and probably save money.

Click to expand...

I meant is there a well screen at the bottom and does it have big holes in it ie not screening. This may be something a driller will have to do to install a new one.

I think I would stay with PVC or copper underground and do copper inside. PEX is good stuff but the price of the special tool (rent it??) and the fittings are pretty high.

The pump will not do anything for the sand except pump it along with water. The pump will also not do anything for water hammer. Water hammer is caused by the flow suddenly stopping ie when solenoid valve on washer shuts. Best for these is either a vertical standpipe with air in it to absorb the shock. Captive air tank also works well but only if downstream of check valves.

I dont know what that valve or whatever it is in the dirt is BUT I would not bury it.

Dan Bentler

Okie

Here is a link to a good pdf file on wells http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/wells/construction/handbook.pdf

Also here is some sandblockers that fit onto the well casing

http://www.deanbennett.com/sand-blocker-well-screens.htm

http://www.maassmidwest.com/Cat540web folder/20_Sandblkr.pdf

Okie

The stuff from Kid looks good. I liked the state of Mn handout. Good overview. You should be able to get something similar where you are.

Dan Bentler

leitmotif said:

I meant is there a well screen at the bottom and does it have big holes in it ie not screening.

Click to expand...

Oh, shot as in fubar, duh... I have no idea. The well was here and working but pressure was very low when I moved in (Oct '06).

leitmotif said:

I think I would stay with PVC or copper underground and do copper inside. PEX is good stuff but the price of the special tool (rent it??) and the fittings are pretty high.

Click to expand...

Too late. I swore to myself last plumbing job that my next plumbing job of any significance would include PEX.

Dan said:

The pump will not do anything for the sand except pump it along with water. The pump will also not do anything for water hammer. Water hammer is caused by the flow suddenly stopping ie when solenoid valve on washer shuts. Best for these is either a vertical standpipe with air in it to absorb the shock. Captive air tank also works well but only if downstream of check valves.

I dont know what that valve or whatever it is in the dirt is BUT I would not bury it.

Dan Bentler

Click to expand...

I got everything I need to use the big acrylic filter after my little clear acrylic strainer and splice into the plastic supply line with all PEX parts. The tool was only $50 of the $700 I spent today (including groceries), but I had to stop short of assembling anything to meet with my son's Marine recruiter and we carried on for over an hour.

I have two more days after work to get the plumbing in, walls up, and some celotex on it before it rains.

They had a cool automatic self purging whole house filter for ~$240 that was sold out...

Thanks for the info so far. I am glad you talked me into the giant acrylic filter, and I am sure the PEX will be money well spent...

Fubar busted broke AFU kaput all terms for dont work no more. Guess you just gotta pick the right term.

Put the filter downstream of pump discharge and as close to pump (uhhh well head) as possible. They do OK in a mild freeze ie here in Seattle but long and hard freeze they can crack.

Dan Bentler

leitmotif said:

Fubar busted broke AFU kaput all terms for dont work no more. Guess you just gotta pick the right term.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I have no idea why I was thinking shot was a verb describe how the well screen was made or installed....

The room addition will stop the freezing with insulated 2x6 walls...I need a buffer zone between me and the wilderness going in and out of this house.

The well head is about 70' from the house so the strainer+filter (and larger pressure tank) will be plenty downstream. Softener shopping tomorrow, but I should have a pic of a wall frame and some PEX plumbing with strainer and filter installed by the end of business tomorrow.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

The water table our well draws from is down to 400' and for the first two years we had frequent issues with sand in our water. House was brand new--we built it. The well driller added a filter, then a backwashing set-up; no help. Finally they came and raised the pump 40'. This helped a lot but we still had issues so after a last round of complaints, the driller brought his rig out and drilled us a new well. They set the pump at 365' this time. All is good now.

He gets a card from us every Christmas...

Hopefully you won't have to redrill. I would try to raise the pump 5' at a time once or twice and see if this helps.

I feel for you--I know what it's like when you get a glass of tap water you can't see through.