Panel design

martyh said:


I really like those external programming ports, especially the AC outlet combos. But does anyone make a data highway one for a PCMK laptop cable? A lot of my jobs are data highway with a SLC tied to a panelview, and the serial port of the SLC is hooked up to a modem. I usually have to connect through the little din(?P/S2?) channel on the 5/04.

I thought I seen one that was made by Grace Engineering.

http://www.grace-eng.com/ge/index.html
 
Thanks for the link Bob,

Funny I was trying to figure that one out myself... :unsure:

I just talked to Grace. They have one for DL-240 Cpu at $340.00. Gotta call the local distrubuter today... (y)

Thanks again...they call it providence.

Mike
 
Regarding Layout and Wire Ducts...

My thoughts, which don't bring me much money by the way, go along these lines:

Locate power devices (drives & circuit protection) in the upper quadrants of the panel, since heat rises. Make sure there is a path (wire duct) for line voltage wiring that stays away from the logic wiring.

Locate the plc close to the terminal strip, and use BIG wire duct in between to handle the density and crossing over of wires in this area.

Since the advent of finger safe terminal blocks, visibility for the poor slob that has to do the field wiring (sometimes that's me) is an issue. We always use the angled DIN rail standoffs for terminal blocks (note, the higher profile DIN rail is sturdier). This makes the wiring on the field side easier to see.

I use ACAD (because that's what we have here) to do panel layouts, and I start with an electronic drawing of the enclosure (available at www.hoffmanonline.com) and other downloaded drawings whenever possible.

No matter what brand of terminal block you use, the 3-level terminal blocks for use with sensors are worth the extra money. Wherever possible, the prox/photo sensors are grouped such that all the 3-level terminal blocks are in one stretch. If you have remote junction boxes or are using device net, it doesn't apply.

I frequently use an excel spreadsheet (homemade form) for a terminal block layout/wire list. The size of the terminals is in a field, which gets tallied. When the tallied number is bigger than the width of the panel, I know I'm in trouble! (I haven't figured out how to attach to the thread yet, but I will be happy to e-mail a sample of the form to anyone who wants it).

Be careful how you treat your co-workers today, for tomorrow they may be your boss.
 
Tom Jenkins said:
NO FUSES
We have gone to breakers for almost all circuits - I got tired of running to Radio Shack.

Funny that you should mention circuit breakers. I just finished taking with a friend of mine that assembles UL panels and apparently there is a new standard that is going into effect sometime in 2006. It will require that all input fuses be rated for the inrush (I think this is the right term) current provided to the BUILDING that the machine will be in. So if the current at the pole is rated for 10,000 Amps then you breaker have to be rated for that amount. I may not be presenting this exactly right, but that is the what he was telling me. They used to use all breakers but have since switched to J style fuses because they are rated for high current and are not unbelievably expensive. He was telling me that the circuit breakers that he would have had to use would cost $1000s.

He told me that AB had a white paper on this new safety standard somewhere on their website. I have not chased it down yet but will post something when I find it.

Bob
 
You may be referring to the interrupt current rating of the device. It sounds like UL might be changing how they look at interrupt current ratings, although I haven't heard anything about that either.

I believe as it is now a breaker or fuse just needs an interrupt rating equal to or greater than the lowest current limiting rating of any device upstream of it. I believe this is the basis of coordinated protection. If what you say is true the coordinated protection concept is going by the wayside.

Keith
 
Grace-Engineering is great. The have many things not shown on their web site and will also do custom work. I had them make up an interface that included connections for: mouse, keyboard, vga, usb, serial, ethernet, fiberoptic sercos, and a set of feed through 24VDC terminals.

-----

Not sure about having to be able to take the building current but for sure listed panels will have to be rated for a short circuit current (as a whole) and no, it's not just the short circuit rating of the incomming circuit breaker or fuses (come one, it's a standard, they couldn't make it that easy). The date this takes effect is April 25, 2006. This is all covered in the SB supplement to UL508 for those keeping score.
 
Thanks for the info

testsubject said:
I added an outlet to all my machines a couple of years ago. ASI has a nice single outlet, dinrail mountable for around $17.00. http://www.asi-ez.com

Im gonna make this din mounted outlet a standard on all panels from now on. Can't count the times I have broke out the extension cord because of low laptop battery. Thanks....excellent idea.

Here is a tip that I find useful when building panels. I use rubber bands to hold the wires securely in the wire duct. I just stretch them across the duct. Helps keep everything nice and organized. They are not very noticeable when the cover is on. Or you can remove them when you have finished wiring. Whatever works for you.
 
Speaking of a penney in place of a fuse.
I don't remember if it was this site or another where someone had a photo of a .22 longrifle bullet
22LR.jpg
in place of fuse.:(
 
gbradley said:
Speaking of a penney in place of a fuse.
I don't remember if it was this site or another where someone had a photo of a .22 longrifle bullet


That was a Mythbusters episode. Eric might have posted a clip of that episode over at Ron's site.

They were able to make the bullet fire when placed in a fuse holder.
 
Amongst the other great thoughts originally posted by cbohn
No matter what brand of terminal block you use, the 3-level terminal blocks for use with sensors are worth the extra money. Wherever possible, the prox/photo sensors are grouped such that all the 3-level terminal blocks are in one stretch.

Absolutely!

I use the ones where all 3 tiers pass through (not only the top tier). This makes a great DC distribution point for 'panel-side' wiring, eliminating the need to daisy-chain from component to component... :nodi:


Thanks for the link, Arik. I couldn't find my post at Ron's. It must have been from before the last site crash. I'm not sure I like the "V" crimp. Mine creates a rectangular crimp. Whomever is making those for Phoenix definitely made the ones I have. Here's a picture of mine:

[attachment]

The handle spring diappeared a LONG time ago... :D


Fuses? I never use 'em. Circuit breakers are THE way to go, period.


Originally posted by 93lt1
That was a Mythbusters episode. Eric might have posted a clip of that episode over at Ron's site.

I had that episode at one time, but it never made it Ron's. Next time it lands on my harddrive I'll be sure to make it available, as it WAS a very 'on-topic' experiment. Amazing how well the bullet "snapped right in there"... utoh

beerchug

-Eric

crimpers.gif
 

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