2014 Red Lion G315 (re-branded), new AB Micro 820

The HMI is a re-branded Red Lion G315 (Eurotherm). The project is adding a small, inexpensive PLC, with a handful of discrete IO, and 2, 4-20 mA analog inputs to the machine. I need a separate PLC from the main SLC 5/05 because the machine runs 24 hrs a day, and this PLC will have the ability to be updated anytime, using my Stridelinx connection, without stopping the main PLC. It'll be used to control some of an ancillary machines that support the main machine, and bring alarms and feedback values into the HMI.

(Sidenote) This was my first, full HMI project, back in 2014. I chose the "Eurotherm" because most of the temperature controllers were Eurotherm, and the sales guy told me all the Eurotherm drivers were loaded and ready to go. If you're curious, here is the datasheet: https://www.eurotherm.com/?wpdmdl=28505 It's now an obsolete product. I have lots of history with this HMI on this board. While searching for answers, I found my first post on it here: http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=85953 ...coincidently, the topic is the same. I'm looking for the easiest way to add a new PLC using the existing drivers.

First, I tried adding a PLC I had in my shop... A (Koyo) Direct Logic 06. I spent a full day trying to get communication between the second com port on the DL and the HMI. I got a cable from Automation Direct with a 15-pin connector on one end, and bare leads on the other. I found someone who still and RJ12 blank plugs in stock, brought my breakout boards, then built and checked my cables for the correct RS232 configuration. The driver was K-sequence, and I used previous posts here that used pretty the same configuration. .....no luck! If I had unlimited time, and the customer wasn't located an hour-and-a-half away, I could probably figure it out. But the machine is down for service next week, and I have to fit this project in. I'm looking for simple, and not too expensive.

I called my local Rockwell sales/tech help and we worked out the a Micro 820 with an extra card for the AI would do the trick. It'll be available to pick up on Tuesday morning, if I still want it. I need to figure out if I can integrate it into the HMI without upgrading the HMI firmware... because the current Red Lion, 800-compatible firmware is probably not available for this re-branded, and obsolete, version of the G315.

So, for you guys with experience, what do you think? What's the chance I can make a current Micro820 work with this 2014ish firmware, without turning it into another science experiment? I'd like to utilize the Ethernet connection if possible. If it needs to go RS232, the HMI uses an RJ12 port, so I'll probably have to build a cable. Below is a picture of the drivers listed on the HMI.

I have read some of your posts on this HMI.

Ok so with the micro820 setup the modbus registers in the project on it and you are good to go. That's what I did with a redlion cr3000 and micro820. I haven't seen alot of 800 drivers yet.
Secondly the 820 has 4 AIs built into it. They are 0-10v. With a 500ohm precision resistor to negative you can use the 4-20 mA transmitters and you get 2-10v for scaling. Just depends what you eed for precision on those analogs.

DwSoFt said:

I have read some of your posts on this HMI.

Ok so with the micro820 setup the modbus registers in the project on it and you are good to go. That's what I did with a redlion cr3000 and micro820. I haven't seen alot of 800 drivers yet.
Secondly the 820 has 4 AIs built into it. They are 0-10v. With a 500ohm precision resistor to negative you can use the 4-20 mA transmitters and you get 2-10v for scaling. Just depends what you eed for precision on those analogs.

Click to expand...

I thought about using the 0-10v with a resistor. I have some in my van. But the 820 and the card are still within the amount I originally quoted for the PLC, so I'm just going with that.

Modbus TCP, I presume? I figured Modbus TCP would end up being my path. I need to find good instruction on how to map the addresses. And I wonder what that will do for being able to do project file uploads over my Stridelinx connection. I'm thinking of adding some spare, auxiliary push buttons on pop-up window and give them addresses in the 820. Then, for instance, if they need something added quickly without shutting the machine down, they can call me, and I can throw something into the 820, and tell them to use the "Aux1" PB on the HMI until the machine is down for maintenance.

The modbus addressing is pretty straight forward in the project. I can take you some screen shots later. It does not affect downloading to the unit, the Modbus TCP is in addition to. on ethernet. If you went serial then it would be one or the other.
As for the extra buttons. It's always good to try to plan ahead for the unknowns. I have had to do that before... lol

DwSoFt said:

The modbus addressing is pretty straight forward in the project. I can take you some screen shots later.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Dan. I appreciate that. I'm taking some time this morning to make other changes to the HMI configuration. I've gained some experience since doing this project, and I'm fixing some of the things that would embarrass me if someone else saw my project file.

It's nice to get back to the Red Lion. I've been doing projects with Siemens and Allen Bradley lately. It's too bad I don't have a "practice" Red Lion HMI in my shop. I'd probably end up quoting them more if I did.

...so many things to buy, and most of it is with *my* money.

I just picked up the Micro 820 and I'm getting ready to head to the customer's to try communicating with the Red Lion HMI. The Micro800 manual has Modbus Mapping in Appendix E. I'm not seeing the connection between the information in the Appendix and the Modbus setup screen in the Red Lion... at least not yet. Haven't found much on YouTube for this. Anyone have tips on making this connection?

Try to read a single holding register first. Pick an address you can manipulate in the PLC to prove you are reading the correct address. With Modbus there are devices that are "zero based" addressed, or "one based" address and even a few that let you pick.

I try to start with holding register 1 or HR1 which might be addressed as 400000, 400001, 40000, or 40001 depending on whether the device is "zero" or "one" based...and how many extra zeroes the developer decided to stick in between the address table identifier and the element number.

Change the value in the PLC to include values throughout the range, either 0-65535 or -32768 to 32767 to make sure that whether you intend to use the value as signed or unsigned, that the PLC software and HMI view of the data are on the same sheet of music.

Once you have proven you know that, for example, TagX is Holding Register 1 and can be read in the Red Lion as 400001, then set up a float which will be held in two consecutive 16 bit holding registers. Repeat the test for a wide range of values to ensure that you have the word order correctly assigned. If you find gibberish when there are bits set in both holding registers, you need to change the Word Ordering In Real Blocks in the HMI driver settings.

Repeat the test for Long integers.

There is no standard for word ordering when you are using Modbus to carry data that is interpreted in 32 bit chunks. The Click is different than the P-Suite series of PLC from the same mfg. Even with A/B, I found recently that a "L" address in a Micrologix CPW'd to two "N" registers and then sent to a SLC ends up with word ordering that is bass-ackwards and they ain't even Modbus.

Once you have proven that you have the base address (zero or one) and word ordering sorted out for all the data types you intend to use, you should be good to go.

I have no experience with the Micro 800 series, but you can make a Red Lion talk to just about anything so I expect you will succeed.

Thanks, Paul. I *just* arrived on-site.... waiting for my XP VM to boot. I made some calls on my way up, and got some more information to sort through on both the Red Lion and the Micro 820. I'll try it all out and make sure I post my results when it works... for the next guy.

I'll also come back here if I get stuck.

Wow... that ended up being easier than I thought it would be. I did a test screen with some BOOL inputs and outputs, and an analog input, with a conversion from an UINT to an INT.

The Red Lion tech support said to leave all the values at default (shown on the screen capture a few posts up from this one), with the exception of the "Ping Holding Register"... set that to "0".

My local Rockwell tech support sent me a Tech Note that showed how to assign the tags to modbus registers in the Micro 820. That was a big help. The title was "Micro800 to PanelView Component via Modbus TCP."

It all worked the first try.