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Old July 28th, 2004, 12:04 PM   #1
sparky64
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S7-416-2 DP Fault - SFB20

I'm relatively new to the world of S7 plc's, all of my experience is with Allen Bradley, i've been transfered to a different part of the plant that has 1 production cell controlled by an S7-416 and every now and then it faults with the following diagnostic message:

Event 6 of 120: Event ID 16# 4304
STOP caused by PG stop operation or by SFB 20 "STOP"
Previous operating mode: RUN
Requested operating mode: STOP (internal)
Incoming event
08:16:23:944 pm 07/27/04

I opened up the offline project and SFB20 is not in it, although there are other SFB's.
I opened up the online project and found SFB20 in the online project??, so i did a compare between the online / offline projects, expecting to be told of differences between the projects, but the compare came back with - comparison of the blocks did not produce any time stamp deviations - no differences found ??
I did an upload to my pc, and ran the compare again, but got the same - no differences found.
How can there be a block in the online project, but not exist in the offline project???

I'm thinking of asking for a transfer back to my old department with Allen Bradley PLC's, Siemens has a very steep learning curve.

If anyone has any ideas i'd be gratefull

Cheers
Sparky
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Old July 28th, 2004, 12:12 PM   #2
JesperMP
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All the SFB's are resident on the CPU. Thats why they are called SYSTEM function blocks.

If you use the cross reference function "program structure", you can see if SFB20 is referenced anywhere in the program.

Apart from that, could it be some erronous device sending strange commands to the CPU ? What is conected to the CPU on its various ports ? Are there any CPs (Communication modules) ?

Also try Siemens Support.

edit: Are there other errors reported in the CPU diagnostics ?
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Old July 28th, 2004, 12:34 PM   #3
sparky64
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HI Jesper

Thanks for replying, the system has a CP443-1 card.....the following messages where on the diagnostics:

Diagnostic buffer of module CPU 416-2 DP

Order No./ Description Component Version
6ES7 416-2XK02-0AB0 Hardware 8
- - - Firmware V 3.1.3

Rack: 0
Slot: 3


Event 1 of 120: Event ID 16# 4302
Mode transition from STARTUP to RUN
Startup information:
- Time for time stamp at the last backed up power on
- Single processor operation
Current/last startup type:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Permissibility of certain startup types:
- Manual warm restart permitted
Last valid operation or setting of automatic startup type at power on:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Previous operating mode: STARTUP (warm restart)
Requested operating mode: RUN
Incoming event
08:17:21:615 pm 07/27/04


Event 2 of 120: Event ID 16# 1381
Request for manual warm restart
STOP due to: STOP caused by PG stop operation or by SFB 20 "STOP"
Startup information:
- Startup without modified system configuration
- No difference between setpoint and actual configuration
- Time for time stamp at the last backed up power on
- Single processor operation
Current/last startup type:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Permissibility of certain startup types:
- Manual warm restart permitted
Last valid operation or setting of automatic startup type at power on:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Requested OB: Startup OB (OB100)
Priority class: 27
Incoming event
08:17:20:547 pm 07/27/04


Event 3 of 120: Event ID 16# 4301
Mode transition from STOP to STARTUP
STOP due to: STOP caused by PG stop operation or by SFB 20 "STOP"
Startup information:
- Time for time stamp at the last backed up power on
- Single processor operation
Current/last startup type:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Permissibility of certain startup types:
- Manual warm restart permitted
Last valid operation or setting of the automatic startup type at power on:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Previous operating mode: STOP (internal)
Requested operating mode: STARTUP (warm restart)
Incoming event
08:17:20:511 pm 07/27/04


Event 4 of 120: Event ID 16# 530D
New startup information in STOP mode
Startup prevented by:
- Cold restart or warm restart necessary
Startup information:
- Time for time stamp at the last backed up power on
- Single processor operation
Current/last startup type:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Permissibility of certain startup types:
- Manual warm restart permitted
Last valid operation or setting of automatic startup type at power on:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Operating mode: STOP (internal)
Incoming event
08:17:20:510 pm 07/27/04


Event 5 of 120: Event ID 16# 530D
New startup information in STOP mode
Startup prevented by:
- STOP request exists
- Cold restart or warm restart necessary
Startup information:
- Time for time stamp at the last backed up power on
- Single processor operation
Current/last startup type:
- Warm restart triggered via MPI
Permissibility of certain startup types:
- Manual warm restart permitted
Last valid operation or setting of automatic startup type at power on:
- No startup type/following memory reset
Operating mode: STOP (internal)
Incoming event
08:16:23:946 pm 07/27/04


Event 6 of 120: Event ID 16# 4304
STOP caused by PG stop operation or by SFB 20 "STOP"
Previous operating mode: RUN
Requested operating mode: STOP (internal)
Incoming event
08:16:23:944 pm 07/27/04


Cheers
Sparky
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Old July 28th, 2004, 01:04 PM   #4
dchartier
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Hello sparky64;

The sequence of events recorded by the diagnostics buffer you sent us shows how the processor recovers from a STOP condition. I would like to see the description of the events that caused the STOP (S7 CPUs use SFB20 to go to a normal Stop condition, to make sure all DBs are saved and no crash occurs, when a fault condition occurs). MPI is used not only between network partners, but on the backplane, between the CPU and the added processors (comms and function modules).
What you should look for in the diagnostics buffer is an earlier (number 7 and higher) entry that mentions a "Missing OB", with an OB
number in the 80s (these are diagnostic OBs, specialized to a specific type of event, see image below). Such an entry would already be a good starting point.
But if you add the requested OB8x to your program (no internal programming necessary, just download it to the CPU), the next time the problem shows up the OB will gather info in the source (defectuive module, address and daignostic) and will display the info in the diagnostic buffer.
Hope this helps,
Daniel Chartier
Attached Images
File Type: jpg oblist.jpg (40.0 KB, 184 views)
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Old July 29th, 2004, 03:44 AM   #5
sparky64
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Hello Daniel thanks for the reply

The earlier entries are as follows, but look at the time stamps of the earlier entries, and they occured a lot sooner than entry 6.

I caused the following faults by deliberately deleting FC43, and then I put FC43 back in again.

Event 7 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 8378
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:002 pm 07/27/04


Event 8 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 1544
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:002 pm 07/27/04


Event 9 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 1440
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:002 pm 07/27/04


Event 10 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 1336
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:002 pm 07/27/04


Event 11 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 1232
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:002 pm 07/27/04


Event 12 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 1128
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:002 pm 07/27/04


Event 13 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 1024
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:001 pm 07/27/04


Event 14 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 920
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:001 pm 07/27/04


Event 15 of 120: Event ID 16# 253C
FC not loaded
FC number: 43
FC number: 86
Module address: 746
Requested OB: Programming error OB (OB121)
Priority class: 1
Internal error, Incoming event
01:30:54:001 pm 07/27/04

What does Event ID 16# 253C mean.....and can I use this information to find the actual fault.

Cheers
Sparky
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Old July 29th, 2004, 04:38 AM   #6
PLucas
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparky

What does Event ID 16# 253C mean
That actually means FC not loaded, which the rest of the diagnostics info is telling you.

All the 'events' in step 7 are numbered, the first digit of the hex value tell's you what type of 'event' it is.

They are as follows:-

1. standard OB events
2. Synchronous errors
3. Asynchronous errors
4. Mode transitions
5. run-time events
6. Communications events
7. events for fail safe systems
8. Diagnostics data on modules
9. Predefined user events
A. and B Freely difinable events
C, D, E. reserved
F. Events for modules other than CPU's (i.e CPs, FMs)

In your example Event ID 16# 253C is a synchronous error and is listed as FC not loaded, which will call OB121. As the diagnostics information tells you.

Event ID 16# 4304 is a 'mode transition event' and is listed as 'STOP caused by PG stop operation or by SFB 20 "STOP"', that is also exactly what the info is telling you

I don't suppose that was much help really.

Paul
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Old July 29th, 2004, 04:47 AM   #7
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Sparky

After a little bit of searching on the Siemens site, I found what I was looking for!!

Go to The Siemens Support Site and type in 1214574 in the search box, this will take you to the SFC manual, section 32 of this manual tells you a little about the 'events' and their ID's. That was the manual I took the information above from.

Paul
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Old July 29th, 2004, 05:13 AM   #8
JesperMP
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It would be fairly easy to check if FC43 and FC86 are loaded in the CPU.
IF one is missing you have to check the code.
It could be a case of simply downloading it to the CPU, OR it could be a programming error (a typo if another FC was intended, or the FC was unintentionally deleted, or it was never created or..).

You can also consider to program one or more of the error OBs so that the proces can continue even if an error exists. Obviously, this needs some consideration as to which kinds of errors are allowed. This vares from application to aplication.
If you had programed the OB121 the CPU wouldnt have stopped. On the other hand you must evaluate if it should have been allowed in the particular case.
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Old July 30th, 2004, 03:48 AM   #9
sparky64
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Thanks for all the replies, i'll let you know how i get on.

Cheers
Sparky
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