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Old February 26th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #1
cdnrookie
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Equipment Monitoring

Hey Guys and Gals,

So I have what could be a very simple or very complicated scenario (and it really depends on how I complicate things, lol)

At our plant we are always having discussions on what equipment is really essential, how often it gets used and how efficient it actually is. More time than not, its an opionion based on nothing more than that.

So I got to thinking, what if I installed a small rely or 2 on each piece of equipment?, most of it would have 2 scenarios

1. Turned on (power to the unit)
2. Working (drilling, cutting, etc)

This would get sent back to a PLC and HMI located in the foremans office, he could see at any point what was running, for how long and perhaps a monthly stat of some point.

We have 20 pieces of equipment that we would like to monitor.

I know there would be several ways to accomplish this, from very simple to complicating it more than I need to. But I'd like some input how you would go about it if it was your project.

Thanks in advance!
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Old February 26th, 2017, 01:25 PM   #2
nhatsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnrookie View Post
what if I installed a small rely or 2 on each piece of equipment?, most of it would have 2 scenarios

1. Turned on (power to the unit)
2. Working (drilling, cutting, etc)
Most of smart relays have 4 to 8 discrete inputs so I would add just one smart relay to monitor when the machine is on/off or some state is active. Of course, each monitored state needs to be available through some auxiliary contact in the machine.

A smart relay with ethernet port and data logging function would be my first option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnrookie View Post
Hey Guys and Gals,
This would get sent back to a PLC and HMI located in the foremans office, he could see at any point what was running, for how long and perhaps a monthly stat of some point.
Sounds good if you have a spare PLC & HMI. But you can use a PC and collect the information, maybe using OPC and a spreedsheet, or using a software like AdvancedHMI.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 01:56 PM   #3
gclshortt
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I would start with a small cost effective PLC with Ethernet and a real time clock.
Automation Direct - Click Series
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ick)/PLC_Units

Now you can add the HMI unit in the foreman's office. AdvancedHMI is a good package to do this as mentioned previously. It will communicate Modbus TCP over Ethernet to the Click.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/advancedhmi/
AdvancedHMI is a free software that can run on visual studio community that is also free.

Here is a series on the Click PLC. It also includes communication with AdvancedHMI.
http://accautomation.ca/click-plc-system-hardware/
Here is the playlist on the series:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Z3aR961EqQUawt

Here is also a series on robust data logging that was written a few years ago. The basic principals are still valid.
http://accautomation.ca/now-you-can-...r-free-part-1/

Hope you find this helpful.
Regards,
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Old February 26th, 2017, 04:27 PM   #4
ASF
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First thing I'd be doing is making up a spreadsheet of all your machines, and what controls them.

- What sort of controller has it got (PLC model)?
- Do you have the software to program it?
- Do you have a copy of the PLC program?
- Is it networked? In what manner?

Once you have all of that information in front of you, it's a lot easier to make an informed decision about how to pull it all together.

I'd definitely investigate AdvancedHMI, because it's free and talks to a lot of different PLC's quickly and easily.

A Red Lion Data Station Plus could be an invaluable asset, depending on the variety of PLC's you have and how they're networked.

A central PLC could be invaluable or unnecessary, depending on the answers above. An Ethernet Click would be a good low cost choice, as Garry suggested.

It all depends on what's out there running the machines!
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Old February 26th, 2017, 05:34 PM   #5
NetNathan
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Use power monitoring device on main incoming power to monitor load.
You can then set power levels based on current draw. You will not need power on state, just use power level.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 06:36 PM   #6
Jeev
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If your equipment is in a line, and the signals are relevant; I would also suggest monitoring 3 addition things.

1) Waiting for upstream.
2) Waiting for downstream.
3) Waiting for materials.

These may show you bottlenecks in the process, or help to calculate how efficient the equipment is.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 05:16 AM   #7
cdnrookie
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Thanks Guys, theres alot there to consider and start with.

We do have an available HMI, there is a proface panel just outside the office area, I'm thinking he could run proface remote and setup a dashboard type display showing all this information on one screen.(after a few modifcations to the program

As for the machines, its a mixed bag, some have FX2N's in them, some have no plc logic whatsoever. For the most part we are pretty good at adding some relays where needed to gather information in this case.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 05:19 AM   #8
cdnrookie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeev View Post
If your equipment is in a line, and the signals are relevant; I would also suggest monitoring 3 addition things.

1) Waiting for upstream.
2) Waiting for downstream.
3) Waiting for materials.

These may show you bottlenecks in the process, or help to calculate how efficient the equipment is.
Our ever changing process makes this difficult but there could be some benefit to adding some operator communication to this. Maybe a simple push button to indicate problems with the machine, another for material issues? Definitely worth checking into
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Old February 27th, 2017, 05:21 AM   #9
cdnrookie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASF View Post
First thing I'd be doing is making up a spreadsheet of all your machines, and what controls them.

- What sort of controller has it got (PLC model)?
- Do you have the software to program it?
- Do you have a copy of the PLC program?
- Is it networked? In what manner?

Once you have all of that information in front of you, it's a lot easier to make an informed decision about how to pull it all together.

I'd definitely investigate AdvancedHMI, because it's free and talks to a lot of different PLC's quickly and easily.


A Red Lion Data Station Plus could be an invaluable asset, depending on the variety of PLC's you have and how they're networked.

A central PLC could be invaluable or unnecessary, depending on the answers above. An Ethernet Click would be a good low cost choice, as Garry suggested.

It all depends on what's out there running the machines!
Starting the list today, anything that has a PLC in it we do have the software and programs. Unfortunately, nothing is networked
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Old February 27th, 2017, 08:31 AM   #10
osmanjdt
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the word of 'monitoring' look so familiar
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Old February 27th, 2017, 08:49 AM   #11
cardosocea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnrookie View Post
Starting the list today, anything that has a PLC in it we do have the software and programs. Unfortunately, nothing is networked
Are the programs commented? It's one thing to have a program and another altogether to have the commented version.

Check which PLC's do have communication interfaces available as these may be usable to interconnect the systems if you have the commented version of the program.

Also, the networking is nice when all machines have the same manufacturer... different manufacturers don't deal well with others normally (sometimes not even for TCP or UDP comms).
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Old February 27th, 2017, 08:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnrookie View Post
Unfortunately, nothing is networked
If you want monitoring, this is realistically the first thing that will need to be fixed. The alternative to networking is to run physical wires all over the place for each signal. Running an Ethernet cable is almost always way easier and cheaper than running wire bundles.

I'd recommend using managed switches (even if they're cheap ones), so that you can get diagnostics on the Ethernet connections.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 09:35 AM   #13
jstolaruk
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Some Suggestions:
In Cycle (Uptime / Downtime)
Starved (Waiting for parts, this often includes operator's loading parts)
Blocked (unable to proceed due to blockage downstream)
Faulted (with fault numbers if management wants to fix things that create the most downtime)
Last Part Cycle Time
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Old February 27th, 2017, 11:04 AM   #14
cdnrookie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardosocea View Post
Are the programs commented? It's one thing to have a program and another altogether to have the commented version.

Check which PLC's do have communication interfaces available as these may be usable to interconnect the systems if you have the commented version of the program.

Also, the networking is nice when all machines have the same manufacturer... different manufacturers don't deal well with others normally (sometimes not even for TCP or UDP comms).
Yes every program we have is commented, we were lucky enough to purchase from the supplier for upgrade/retrofitting needs
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Old February 27th, 2017, 11:07 AM   #15
cdnrookie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk42 View Post
If you want monitoring, this is realistically the first thing that will need to be fixed. The alternative to networking is to run physical wires all over the place for each signal. Running an Ethernet cable is almost always way easier and cheaper than running wire bundles.

I'd recommend using managed switches (even if they're cheap ones), so that you can get diagnostics on the Ethernet connections.

Yes, your right there, looking at this project and ahead to future demands I see alot of value in networking as much of these as possible. I know there quite a few ways to accomplish this, perhaps a small processor with ethernet capabilities to a central unit then that to the HMI?
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