Using TIA portal instead of classic step 7

Pete.S.

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Mar 2016
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I have for the longest time avoided using the S7-1500 because everyone warned me that TIA portal was a stinking pile of garbage to be avoided at all cost.

Unfortunately I can no longer do that as I have upcoming projects with the S7-1500.

My first one is a small project that would take me about three weeks with a s7-300 using step 7 classic and wincc to program. I'm fairly proficient at using step 7 classic and have decades of PLC experience but have never used TIA portal. Project is going to be ladder + scl and a comfort panel. Very basic I/O config with no profinet devices except the panel.

How much time would you guess it would take me to learn how to use the tia portal and do this project?
 
2 weeks of Portal install/training/familiarity. I would migrate the code from an existing S7-300 project so you get a feel for the subtle changes that may be required for the code to compile with no errors/warnings in the S7-1500.

4 weeks to do the first job that would normally take you 3.
 
Lord knows I'm no Siemens fan but I found TIA to be a tremendous improvement over Step-7. Much more intuitive. Still not as good as some competitive packages but certainly a quantum leap. Big resource hog but if you have a powerful enough machine to run it on it's just fine.
 
The first versions could be pretty fairly called "a stinking pile of garbage" but the recent versions (v14/v15) are pretty good. Portal + 1500 fixes most everything I hated about Simatic manager, although it does create some new pet peeves.

It is possible to program a 1500 mostly the way you probably would a 300, with mostly absolute addressing. However the real conveniences come when you start becoming familiar with symbolic programming.
 
The first versions could be pretty fairly called "a stinking pile of garbage" but the recent versions (v14/v15) are pretty good. Portal + 1500 fixes most everything I hated about Simatic manager, although it does create some new pet peeves.

It is possible to program a 1500 mostly the way you probably would a 300, with mostly absolute addressing. However the real conveniences come when you start becoming familiar with symbolic programming.

I normally set my s7-300 projects to symbolic mode. Does the s7-1500 symbolic mode work the same way?
 
I normally set my s7-300 projects to symbolic mode. Does the s7-1500 symbolic mode work the same way?

Its similar, but better (at least from my perspective). Basically, if you do the 1500 right, you don't even care what DB# you're working with. Data types matter a lot tho.

One of the big improvements is the ability to do indirect addressing of Arrays right from LAD. You don't need to muck about with pointers for anything, or be forced into SCL if you don't want to be.

I also like that, essentially, a tag is a tag, regardless of data type. Whether it is just an INT or a complicated custom data type, you can easily reference them. Want to copy it? One simple MOVE for the whole tag, whether it is an INT or a UDT. You generally need to define your data types for the benefits to be relevant though.

In the 1500, every block defaults to "optimized" mode, which means access is symbolic only, no absolute addressing. It won't even tell you what the absolute addresses are. You need to uncheck Optimized in the DB properties to get absolute addresses, but the trade off is slower access times, especially if you are mixing optimized and standard access.
 
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Pete
I thought you did some 1200 projects with hs counters?
You had to use Portal for those
L D has a good idea for you, migrate a V5 project
 
One big thing to remember is if you are trying to pull data from the plc through an OPC server then you have to select the PUT/GET option in the processor properties and the DB's have to be unoptimized. Just something to remember when trying to connect to non-Siemens devices or processes.
 
I tried codesys a couple of times and that's what I would call "a stinking pile of garbage" �� I'm sure others have a whole different opinion. If you're used to step 7 classic and wincc you'll learn tia easy.
 
Genuine question, did Siemens include a Cross Reference tool on TIA portal already? You can add all the bells and whistles in the world, but remove my Ctrl+Alt+Q shortcut and it is simply utter garbage.
 
I tried codesys a couple of times and that's what I would call "a stinking pile of garbage" �� I'm sure others have a whole different opinion. If you're used to step 7 classic and wincc you'll learn tia easy.

As a CoDeSys fan I totally disagree. I do prefer CoDeSys 2 over CoDeSys 3.
 
Genuine question, did Siemens include a Cross Reference tool on TIA portal already? You can add all the bells and whistles in the world, but remove my Ctrl+Alt+Q shortcut and it is simply utter garbage.

Portal has had a Cross reference for a while, and it sometimes even includes both PLC and HMI references in one place.

However, Portal completely changes all the hotkeys. Pretty much the only thing that stayed the same is the Windows standard F1 for help. I've been telling every Siemens guy who will listen that Microsoft Office allowed you to customize your hotkeys when I was in grade school, but we still can't do it here.
 
TIA V15 is quite allright now.

There is a lot of good stuff
1. Save code with errors or just not finished. No longer are you "being held hostage by STEP7".
2. Arrays and indirect addressing in LAD and FBD.
3. AT-views in LAD and FBD.
4. Slice access.
5. Trace.
6. 64-bit variables.
7. Generally a lot of stuff works better in TIA than i STEP7 Classic.
edit: 8. Snapshot function to save actual values and set them as initial values.

But of course there are still some significant downsides.
My main peeves are:
1. The user interface reqires you to constantly open and close windows, adjust window sizes, adjust the width of dialogs, expand or close tree structures. It is tiresome.
2. Firmware must be syncronised with the loaded program. And as far as I understand this includes the firmware on individual modules. So, when the endcustomer wants to replace a defective module, he cant just do that. The program may have to be adapted to reflect the firmware version. It is not like in STEP7 Classic where an ancient program will run no problem in the latest gen CPU. This is a real serious problem !
3. Optimised vs. non-optimised. What is this nonsense ?! We should not have to have this choice. It is an added complexity. Siemens should have chosen one of the two and gone 100% that way.
4. Not really pertaining to the TIA software, but I find that ET200SP is a disappointment. It is too finicky in all respects. The labeling (impossible to see with my eyes !), the handling (who needs 16 channels in such a narrow space), push-in instead of cage-clamp, the tiny electrical contacts. I would prefer the hardware from ET200S with the performance from ET200SP.
edit: 5. When changing some data declaration somewhere, TIA forces you to load all affected datas. You dont get the choice to only load what you want to load, which may result in that you cannot load the changes on a running system.
 
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We use v13 sp1 update 9, and I am overall really happy with it. I would like to upgrade to v14/15, but our SUS expired, so I'm sticking with 13 until I have a situation that necessitates an update.

There are definitely some differences, but I think overall its a better software and probably easier to use once you get used to it. I recommend multiple screens for development if you have that luxury.
 

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