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Old October 11th, 2018, 06:29 AM   #1
phuz
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5069 I/O fault

I added a 5069-OW16 module to a system yesterday that currently has a 5069-L306ER processor and a 5069-IY4 module. The OW16 was tested and running when I left yesterday, but I got a call this morning saying that the pump we wired to it was not running and the card's MODULE STATUS indicator was flashing red. What could possibly make that card fault while the rest of the system is running OK?
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Old October 11th, 2018, 07:15 AM   #2
jstolaruk
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Module configuration will dictate if a controller controller fautl occurs if the connection fails while in Run Mode. See the Connection Properties of the module and the setting "Major Fault On Controller If Connection Fails While In Run Mode".

As far as why the module faulted, I don't have that magic sense that can reach out to the circuit and tell you why; wish I did.
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Old October 11th, 2018, 08:18 AM   #3
phuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstolaruk View Post
Module configuration will dictate if a controller controller fautl occurs if the connection fails while in Run Mode. See the Connection Properties of the module and the setting "Major Fault On Controller If Connection Fails While In Run Mode".

As far as why the module faulted, I don't have that magic sense that can reach out to the circuit and tell you why; wish I did.
I'm just wondering what things can make a module fault like that. I've never seen it happen. Brand new out of the box module, too.
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Old October 11th, 2018, 11:27 AM   #4
tarik1978
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Is the power on 5069-OW16 24VDC or 120VAC?

5069-OW16 Channel Status LEDs are flashing red after applying 120 VAC SA Power
1070979 | Date Created: 12/14/2017 | Last Updated: 02/09/2018
Access Level: Everyone
https://rockwellautomation.custhelp....l/a_id/1070979
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Old October 11th, 2018, 11:41 AM   #5
phuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarik1978 View Post
Is the power on 5069-OW16 24VDC or 120VAC?

5069-OW16 Channel Status LEDs are flashing red after applying 120 VAC SA Power
1070979 | Date Created: 12/14/2017 | Last Updated: 02/09/2018
Access Level: Everyone
https://rockwellautomation.custhelp....l/a_id/1070979
The module is on 24VDC power. As I stated, the MODULE STATUS is flashing red, not the channel status.

Supposedly with these new 5069 relay output modules, they don't have any internal suppression for inductive loads (which I would guess account for the majority of loads out there), so connecting an inductive load, as we did, to power a motor starter, can introduce "noise" into the module and cause it to fault. Talk about poor design. Funny how the 5069-OW16 manual makes no mention of this and it took a call to AB tech support to reference a Tech Note about such loads. Not impressed.

Last edited by phuz; October 11th, 2018 at 11:45 AM.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 04:44 PM   #6
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same problem happening here

I am troubleshooting a rack of 5069 I/O that has been experiencing repeated comms failures as well. I have 1 5069-OW16 in the rack, connected to a half-dozen or so old 24VDC MAC valves. The first time I saw this error it was this card at the main point of failure (all cards to the left were still talking). But since then it seems to be the entire rack going off-comms when it happens. All I/O is 24VDC, no 120VAC. The rack config is below:

5069-L310ERS2
5069-IB16
5069-IB16
5069-OB16
5069-FPD
5069-OW16
5069-HSC2xOW4
5069-IB16
5069-IB16
5069-IB16

Anyone have any luck fixing/working around this problem?
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Old October 15th, 2018, 04:55 PM   #7
phuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugobear View Post
I am troubleshooting a rack of 5069 I/O that has been experiencing repeated comms failures as well. I have 1 5069-OW16 in the rack, connected to a half-dozen or so old 24VDC MAC valves. The first time I saw this error it was this card at the main point of failure (all cards to the left were still talking). But since then it seems to be the entire rack going off-comms when it happens. All I/O is 24VDC, no 120VAC. The rack config is below:

5069-L310ERS2
5069-IB16
5069-IB16
5069-OB16
5069-FPD
5069-OW16
5069-HSC2xOW4
5069-IB16
5069-IB16
5069-IB16

Anyone have any luck fixing/working around this problem?
Unfortunately, it looks as if you need to use a load resistor. Because we did not have one, and needed to keep running, I had the electricians wire in a temporary 24vdc ice-cube relay to drive the starter. We are upgrading the starter very shortly and I strongly suggested a 24vdc coil. So far it's been OK on 24vdc. Still not happy with the results.

I notice you have an FPD in your tree. Why is that? Extra power?
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Old October 15th, 2018, 10:38 PM   #8
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I found in the last 5069 commission that the inut modules are very sensitive to noise on the input signal wires; more so than 1769 or 1734 inputs. Extra care had to be taken to route wiring father away from vfd output wiring than in the past.
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Old October 16th, 2018, 10:38 AM   #9
hugobear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phuz View Post
Unfortunately, it looks as if you need to use a load resistor. Because we did not have one, and needed to keep running, I had the electricians wire in a temporary 24vdc ice-cube relay to drive the starter. We are upgrading the starter very shortly and I strongly suggested a 24vdc coil. So far it's been OK on 24vdc. Still not happy with the results.

I notice you have an FPD in your tree. Why is that? Extra power?
The FPD was (I'm told) a result of the design in IAB. The engineer designing this followed the IAB guidelines and I thought doing that would pose no problems. The IO in the cabinet is all 24v, no 120v anywhere in the box. All the VFDs are in a separate cabinet but the inputs and VFD cables may be too close somewhere on the machine. That said... I'm VERY disappointed that it's that finicky on noise. If this were all 1756 IO I'd be virtually certain this wouldn't be happening.
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Old October 16th, 2018, 10:44 AM   #10
phuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugobear View Post
The FPD was (I'm told) a result of the design in IAB. The engineer designing this followed the IAB guidelines and I thought doing that would pose no problems. The IO in the cabinet is all 24v, no 120v anywhere in the box. All the VFDs are in a separate cabinet but the inputs and VFD cables may be too close somewhere on the machine. That said... I'm VERY disappointed that it's that finicky on noise. If this were all 1756 IO I'd be virtually certain this wouldn't be happening.
You're correct. This doesn't happen with 1756 I/O. I have several of these 5069 PLCs installed at various customers and I'm wondering if it was a bad choice.
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Old October 16th, 2018, 10:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phuz View Post
You're correct. This doesn't happen with 1756 I/O. I have several of these 5069 PLCs installed at various customers and I'm wondering if it was a bad choice.
We're in the same boat... went with the new platform for the longest life cycle available and now we have random IO failures. Not good...
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Old October 16th, 2018, 10:57 AM   #12
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I use the FPD to isolate motion and non-motion output power; typically the FPD is powered when safe conditions exist (safety relay).
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Old November 22nd, 2018, 09:28 AM   #13
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I have the same issue on 2 installs. 5069-IQ16 24vdc input at reference does not initiate the input. Re-routing of the wiring solved the issue. 5069-IF8 input properly shielded had to be re-routed not to induce a fault on the card.

I have discontinued using the 5069 i/o until AB solves the issue.

Rick
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Old November 22nd, 2018, 09:57 AM   #14
phuz
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Originally Posted by rickhughes View Post
I have the same issue on 2 installs. 5069-IQ16 24vdc input at reference does not initiate the input. Re-routing of the wiring solved the issue. 5069-IF8 input properly shielded had to be re-routed not to induce a fault on the card.

I have discontinued using the 5069 i/o until AB solves the issue.

Rick
Have you made AB or your supplier aware of this? If we want a fix, it's important that they know of all these issues.
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Old November 24th, 2018, 03:40 PM   #15
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Of course I informed my AB rep of the issues, and I apologized for wasting his time after he deduced that I must have incorrectly applied his product (for the past 40 years).

Rick
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