A Quick Comparrison

Good Morning Folks.

Iv been asked to price a new control system for a large refrigeration plant overhaul.
I of course want to use trusty ol Compact Logix. Its a large system consisting of 2 controllers and all in all about 21 slots of I/O between them.

I picked out an L33ER and an existing L32E that I have already. The owner wants me to also price Omron. The issue is, Iv never used Omron. Learning curve and head aches aside..... What Omron PLC compares to the processor I have specified in AB world. My Omron rep quoted me a couple of NX-102 processors.

Price is OK, really OK compared ot the Compact Logix. However, the software feels like CCW. Did he just quote me a processor that is more equivalent to a Micro800Line processor using CCW or is this Omrons fair contender to the Compact Logix?

Thanks!

The Omron is a fair contender in my opinion.
http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/3705/feature.html
I would also look at the P3000 series controllers from Automation Direct. You may find them an easier transition and the price will be very OK.
https://www.automationdirect.com/productivity/p3000

Just a throught.
Regards,

gclshortt said:

The Omron is a fair contender in my opinion.
http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/3705/feature.html
I would also look at the P3000 series controllers from Automation Direct. You may find them an easier transition and the price will be very OK.
https://www.automationdirect.com/productivity/p3000

Just a throught.
Regards,

Click to expand...

I'm used to building global objects in FTV.ME then using parameter lists to look at my PLC (UDT) tags, Does the C-More software allow similar actions? Looking at the website it looks pretty capable but no mention of parameter passing. Maybe they call it something else???
Its out of the question for this current project but I do need to get into something else as I'm looking at more and more jobs on the side but Rockwell prices on software and hardware components take me out the game on the private side. I can't even update the test bench in my home shop from V19 and RSView32. I'm stuck there without spending big $$$ that this little guy aint got!


So long as my regular employer is footing the bill though, it will be AB!

One thing that gets commonly overlooked is future support. Not to say that AB is better or worse that Omron but it is much easier to find people who know how to deal with AB applications. Just something that should be considered. It might still be that Omron is better for the application but maybe not.

https://forum.automationdirect.com/forum/general-applications/13735-productivity-tag-addresses-for-c-more-hmi

The importing of tags in the C-More is a one way deal. It does not have a global tag list.

Regards,

Looking at this Productivity stuff.
It doesn't support parameter passing, ok I can deal with that. No AOI support, I can make a routine for each device so I can deal with that. Just have to change my ways a little. But how do you deal with no option to create a user defined tag or data type?

The rest looks ok but I'm worried that things will get messy without being able to pack all the tags in to one tag that deal with a specific device.

I'm used to having a UDT for all tags relating to a motor or a contactor or even a solenoid. Command bits, status bits, Interlock bits, delay timers, configuration alarms just to name a few.

How is one to arrange all this without having a super massive controller tag database?

Perhaps create an array of dint tags and designate each element to a "job"

[0] = Command, [0].0 = CMD.Start, [0].1=CMD.Stop ECT...
[1]= Status [1].0=STS.Active [1].1=STS.Ready ECT...
[2]= Interlock [2].0=Intlk1 [2].1=Intlk2 ECT...
[3]=InterlockBypass [3].0=IntlkBP1 [3].0=IntlkBP1 ECT...
[4]=CommandSpeed
[5]=OutputFreq
[6]=OutputCurrent
[7]=FaultCode

Then in my HMI.....I could copy a motor page for example and tag replace just the tag name, array elements and bits could be the same motor to motor page to page. UMMM... I'm not sure if this would work or not.

Just to give the picture, I haven't tried this or even touched productivity yet, only in my brain.


Iv done "small" projects, weighing and dispensing systems, scales, diverter conveyors and such with no ability to create UDT in things like CCW. But even then I was able to purchase the developer version to give that ability if so desired. This is a large project and Iv only ever worked on Compact for large projects.

How would you folks handle this? In any software you want to look good at the end of the project that doesn't use UDT. I cant imagine dumping all those tags on the main tag database.

Thanks

PLC Pie Guy said:

How would you folks handle this? In any software you want to look good at the end of the project that doesn't use UDT. I cant imagine dumping all those tags on the main tag database.

Click to expand...

Your array option would work, I think. As I understand it, productivity uses Modbus for communications, so you probably would want to check if your HMI of choice lets you take a register and break it down into bits. It should be standard functionality, but you never know.

You can always name the different variables starting with what would be your UDT name and the variable name separated with a dot, but it would not make the tag database look cleaner, it would be helpful for you to see what variables exist as they would group together.

cardosocea said:

Your array option would work, I think. As I understand it, productivity uses Modbus for communications, so you probably would want to check if your HMI of choice lets you take a register and break it down into bits. It should be standard functionality, but you never know.
.

Click to expand...

Actually I plan on using the C-More 10" colour touch screen with an Ethernet Ad On module for the communication and use it that way.

I'm reading now that Arrays can be created but not of constants. Does that mean that the values in the array tags are not "retained" as I would know it? I hope that is not the case.

What does a "constant" mean in Productivity.


Thanks

PLC Pie Guy said:

I'm reading now that Arrays can be created but not of constants. Does that mean that the values in the array tags are not "retained" as I would know it? I hope that is not the case.

Click to expand...

True constants are, as far as I know, supported in Siemens only. A constant is something that cannot be changed, not something that is retained or kept in non-volatile memory.

Looking at the CPU specs it seems all of the P3000's have retentive memory of 492K.

I just sent a request to Automation Directs techsupport asking the question about breaking the Array into bits within the HMI expression or tag database.

Ill post the answer once I get it.

Also, I asked about the "constant" thing. I just need clarity on that.

It sure is tough to find an all around PLC that is "cheaper" but still has the functionality iv grown up on with the big guy software.

I'm thinking it doesn't exist after all this research!

cardosocea said:

True constants are, as far as I know, supported in Siemens only. A constant is something that cannot be changed, not something that is retained or kept in non-volatile memory.

Looking at the CPU specs it seems all of the P3000's have retentive memory of 492K.

Click to expand...

Thank you for that! That's what I was hoping. I would hate to see all my Array values go to the Initial value on a power cycle.

Curious. What functionality does Omron not have that AB does have ?
Honest question - not baiting for a flame war !

PLC Pie Guy said:

Thank you for that! That's what I was hoping. I would hate to see all my Array values go to the Initial value on a power cycle.

Click to expand...

Judging by the same manual, there is a tick box to make a variable retentive.

Firejo said:

One thing that gets commonly overlooked is future support.

Click to expand...

Although one might split the support in two categories... one being the support of moving away from an integrator onto another that understands the platform and support in the sense of the brand supporting the PLC or protocols so that it doesn't have to be changed in 5 years time.

It's been a decade since I looked at OMRON, but lately AB is definitely not something I equate with longevity of support.

JesperMP said:

Curious. What functionality does Omron not have that AB does have ?
Honest question - not baiting for a flame war !

Click to expand...

So far, just the lack of parameter passing to the HMI. Also, the tiny little library of HMI objects. Referring to Sysmac Studio. I have an online session with an Omron rep later this morning so he can show me some of the capability. Id like to see some way to make a re-usable screen object and or display that can somehow be indirectly referenced.
Other than that, they seem pretty equivalent, just based on the tiny bit of time Iv had with it. Maybe it can do more than I think!
Perhaps still more than my customer wants to spend though. My system still comes in around the 18K mark with Omron. About 6K cheaper than the Ab alternative but about 7K more than the AD route.
Just weighing options, pros and cons.

Thanks