Uploading from S7-314

I've just tried to get an upload after creating a new, empty project then using the Online / Upload device as new station (hardware and software) command. Am I right in thinking that this error "The hardware configuration was created and downloaded to the device with an incompatible version of STEP7. Download of the hardware configuration to the programming device/PC is not possible" likely means that Simatic S7 was used to program the machine originally?

20221129E screen shot.png
 
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Either that or a different version of TIA may have been used, not sure but I have seen posts on here where firmware versions in RSLogix have caused problems. Seen many theads here regarding upgrading or downgrading firmware, does appear nowadays that version changes happen quite frequently I suppose it is possible that originally it was programmed in Step 7 classic, some changes done in TIA or different versions, trouble is I have no idea if you can download the code after mods without downloading the hardware configuration but it may work. If you are only trying to find what is stopping things & it did work before then probably will not have to change anything, my experience is that there is a sensor or something that is causing the thing not to run as expected, often this could be a signal from some safety device I have been to many second hand machines that do not work, uploaded a copy of the program, added some comments from the drawings & in many cases it has been some interlock i.e. a wiring error or sensor out of position.
I suspect you could go on-line monitor & troubleshoot the problem.
 
LD or Jesper may be able to help.
Some suggestions, try uploading hardware using Step 7 Classic i.e. V5.x
Open up project with TIA, upload blocks so you may have a project with the right hardware config & the blocks that are ok in TIA.
Not sure if when you open up an older S7 program with TIA then update say just the blocks it will work but in my experience I have had to do configuration of hardware with older versions of the IDE then convert it to the newer IDE.
I did one some time ago, the PLc was programmed in GXIEC, no problems I had the file, however, some configuration required a utility not availlable in my GXIEC IDE, I used one from an older version of GXDeveloper to configure the hardware, so even though I could redily chnge the program using GXIEC if we replaced some intelligent cards I had to configure them with the older GXDeveloper, so perhaps a combination may get it to work.
As long as you do not download to the PLC maybe you could use these files to faultfind.
 
It seems that the program was made with STEP7 V5 aka "Classic".
Stay with STEP7 V5.
As you have found out a program made with STEP7 Classic cannot be directly loaded into TIA and used directly, same in the other direction TIA to Classic. You can migrate from Classic to TIA, but I would not do it. Even for a seasoned programmer in both Classic and TIA, I see no advantage in doing so. Only pitfalls.

A quick cross reference for an address is to highlight the address in an editor, and then hit CTRL-ALT-Q. In the dialog that pops up, be sure to activate "display access to overlapping addresses". keep this dialog open, even if you are done with the address. You can then type in any address without first having to find it in code somewhere first.
(so if you dont have a starting point, select any address in the STL/FB/LAD editor, hit CTRL-ALT-Q, and then manually change the address to the one you are interested in).
Notice that there are access types with pointers that this reference wont find.

Maybe the code may display as FBD even if it does not display as LAD.
I despise programs for logic made in STL.
 
In post #8, there seems to be a screenshot or the actual program, i.e. the original source, not an upload.
If that is correct, close the uploaded program and open this original offline program instead.
Then do an online/offline block compare. Select the Blocks folder, and then use Options .. Compare blocks .. offline/online.
If no differences are found, that is great, you should continue using this project. You can go online with no problems.
If there are differences, you have to investigate every single one. Depending on how many differences there are, there are different approaches to get your offline project updated with the online program while retaining comments and symbols.

edit: Scratch that, your wrote that it is an upload. If you can get your hands on a source project that will be critical to be able to troubleshoot the program. A program without comments or symbols is very difficult to work with.
 
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I sort of agree with you Jesper, however, it appears when the OP uploaded it in classic there was some code that would not translate as such see post #24 last pic.
When the op took another shot with TIA it seemed to correct it but hardware incompatability. so perhaps for some reason the upload in classic either was corrupted or there is something in TIA that translates it correctly see pic of original upload in classic.
Perhaps the OP could re-upload in classic again to see if it is corrected.

Error S7.png
 
Just taking a guess that the red lines have to do with formatting the code for FBD.
The BLD instructions are never used be a programmer, they are inserted automatically by the editor when coding LAD or FBD and are intended to format the code for displaying as LAD or FBD. Since LAD does not work maybe FBD will.
One of the things that is possible with FBD but not always with LAD is placing an S/R block in the middle of the network. And at glance that looks exactly to be the case.

edit: You can try to force it to open as FBD. Open the LAD/STL/FBD editor, open Options .. Customize .. View tab.
Then select Viev for Block Types .. Logic Blocks = FBD.
 
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Thanks guys! It never ceases to amaze me how much time and effort people are willing to give on this forum in order to help strangers. I want you to know that I really appreciate it.

I'm going to try displaying as FBD - I think I already did and it didn't work but my memory is terrible - and I'll report back. We usually "get our man" but I have a feeling that this machine is a STEP (or 7) too far. We have a contact at the manufacturer who might be able to assist and we know a talented, local Siemens programmer too, so all hope's not lost. It's just whether we can keep the current prospective customer interested while we seek a resolution.
 
Ah... I forgot about that thinking about ladder as that would not translate however, FBD may. so as Jesper said, try to open it in FBD. FBD was not something I used that much in Siemens as it was pretty new at the time & have only done some mods in the 2000-2016 only used it in Mitsubishi from that point.
 
No-go on FBD. See attached screenshot.

Is there any mileage in editing (after first making sure I have a current upload safely saved) the STEP 7 code to make it the same as it was in TIA, probably minus the ""? See attached screen snippet.

20221130 screen shot.png 20221129D1 screen shot.jpg
 
Tech
I haven’t read all the other posts…
But don’t you have the original project done in Step7 v5.x?

No, unfortunately not. I work for an industrial machinery merchant and this is a secondhand machine that we're trying to get running to sell on to a prospective customer. We don't have the original code.
 
Now I notice there is at the top a call for a time T12, but without all the 'pins' being filled in. In FBD you can leave the pins empty, but when displaying as STL the positions where the empty pins are supposed to be there should be lines with NOP 0 instead.
So without these NOP 0 lines, it looks as if the code was actually written in STL.
That, or the original programmer started with LAD or FBD, but at some time inexplicably switched over to STL thereby creating a cludge STL code.

You can also simply delete the 2 red lines as well as the BLD instructions so that you have the same result as TIA has converted to.
Before downloading this changed block to the PLC, save the project under a new name.
 
It's been a while since I had to do this, but I do remember seeing weird things in FB/FC calls after there were some changes made elsewhere. The program would run and work fine but it would show some lines in red like that. As I recall...there is an option in classic Step 7 (for Simatic Manager) to re-compile the program or do a consistency check or something like that. I think it's in the Project menu, but I don't have access to the software any more to check. It could be that there was a change made to the FC that broke something in the call instruction but in a way that the program could still function.



You can also check the diagnostic buffer to see if it's calling error-handling OBs. Like OB82 or OB87 (don't ask me what each is for; I don't remember any more). Normally, the PLC would catch such an error and fault, but it will instead look for and run the error handler OB if it's present. If it's present (even if it's empty), the PLC will consider the fault handled and keep rolling. An error in an FC/FB call could trigger an OB but not stop the CPU.



You can also try a "Save As" and check "With Reorganization" in the dialog box that opens. That can also correct some weirdnesses but I wouldn't expect it to help with this. You never know though.


edit:
Again, this is all from memory from several years ago. I've been out of the Siemens world for a while now but I did battle a lot of program inconsistencies while I was working with them.
 
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