if I put the drive local to each motor, the contractors will have to run another set of conduits, etc to handle the control wiring. I could just do a Modbus network, but this is long distances too. Installation time would be considerably higher. Because these 7 fans that run together are spaced throughout the barn, they are not just right beside each other to do master /slave. That is why i was hoping for some way to make it work with long lead lengths........
VFD. multiple motor.long lead length
- Thread starter lesmar96
- Start date
Can someone please explain to me why long lead length will still pose a problem if I install a sine wave output filter? If the power going from the vfd to the motor is a sinusoidal wave, why would it make more of a problem than what some of yous are advising running the incoming power all that distance instead? Isn't it the harmonics and spikes of pushing the pwm sinewave that far, that makes the stray voltage and noise issues so bad?
I made that statement based on your previous posts where you were talking of using EMI filters and chokes.
I did not have sine wave filters in mind and also I do not have any experience with sine wave filters so they may be a valid solution. I have a high regard for DickDV's recommendation.
In response to your previous post about the additional installation time to have the VFDs on the fans... Again I would point out that is negligible compared to the overall impact on the system. Also if you use a proper shielded VFD cable and have long motor leads, your cost on that VFD cable will quickly become significant. (if cost is your primary concern)
Ok. thanks.
At this point, we are likely going to follow DickDV's recommendation. Its seems to solve the issues and be the most practical. We and our customer are not all concerned about the cost of this, but we are trying to be practical.
At this point, we are likely going to follow DickDV's recommendation. Its seems to solve the issues and be the most practical. We and our customer are not all concerned about the cost of this, but we are trying to be practical.
DICKDV,
What is the advantages of using 230V? If my customer has 480V, should we use a 460 primary/230 secondary drive isolation transformer to have all the long lead lengths on 230v?
rQx
Lifetime Supporting Member
You won't be getting as high reflected waves with lower voltages.
But I don't know if that is why DickDV recommended it though, better wait for his response
But I don't know if that is why DickDV recommended it though, better wait for his response
rQx
Lifetime Supporting Member
I just remembered about a product I came across a year ago. A VFD with no interference, maybe that is something for you. Haven't tested or bought the product myself.
http://nfodrives.se/eng/
http://nfodrives.se/eng/
Just a thought ere. AB makes a 520 style drive in 240V AC 1ph in, uses 3ph motors. work very well. see page 8of this PDF
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/td/520-td001_-en-e.pdf
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/td/520-td001_-en-e.pdf
janner_10
Lifetime Supporting Member
Way over complicating it.
1 drive, 1 local motor and network them together.
If you're pulling in 4 cables may as well make it 6 for no extra hassle.
Get the drive rep in for the Cow Shed regs.
Not exactly a complex project.
1 drive, 1 local motor and network them together.
If you're pulling in 4 cables may as well make it 6 for no extra hassle.
Get the drive rep in for the Cow Shed regs.
Not exactly a complex project.
I'm pretty sure Danfoss makes a VFD/motor combo as well. Pretty clean install.
How were you planning to do individual motor protection from the one single drive? Separate overloads for each motor? Really, if it were me, I would do separate VFDs for each motor- so many advantages. If you're already pulling cable to the motor, a few extra conductors for control is pretty minor. If memory serves, a NEMA 4X ABB ACS250 in the 1-2HP range is something like $300?. Seems like that may end up being just about the same price a single large VFD, filter, reactor, whatever else, and 7 motor overloads.
Extra benefit of the ACS250 is that you can get them with a disconnect built-in.
How were you planning to do individual motor protection from the one single drive? Separate overloads for each motor? Really, if it were me, I would do separate VFDs for each motor- so many advantages. If you're already pulling cable to the motor, a few extra conductors for control is pretty minor. If memory serves, a NEMA 4X ABB ACS250 in the 1-2HP range is something like $300?. Seems like that may end up being just about the same price a single large VFD, filter, reactor, whatever else, and 7 motor overloads.
Extra benefit of the ACS250 is that you can get them with a disconnect built-in.
Cow
Member
Are the dairy farmers using or planning to use RFID ear tags for reading cow ID's?
This is critical to determining where the VFD will be located.
95% of the work our particular crew does is dairy work. We are in the process of a very large dairy parlor remodel and they are using VES cyclone fans with Lenze VFD's attached to each fan. We have 3-4 fans/circuit with a shielded Belden 600v ethernet cable to each fan from a central PLC cabinet. Temp and humidity sensors for control.
http://www.vesenvironmentalsolutions.com/literature/lit-images-Jan2016/FAN - CYCLONE EMAIL.pdf
We are not using any isolation transformers. There is an equipotential plane installed in the concrete floor bonding the floor and all metal parts, fences, etc together to mitigate any stray voltage concerns as required by the NEC.
This is critical to determining where the VFD will be located.
95% of the work our particular crew does is dairy work. We are in the process of a very large dairy parlor remodel and they are using VES cyclone fans with Lenze VFD's attached to each fan. We have 3-4 fans/circuit with a shielded Belden 600v ethernet cable to each fan from a central PLC cabinet. Temp and humidity sensors for control.
http://www.vesenvironmentalsolutions.com/literature/lit-images-Jan2016/FAN - CYCLONE EMAIL.pdf
We are not using any isolation transformers. There is an equipotential plane installed in the concrete floor bonding the floor and all metal parts, fences, etc together to mitigate any stray voltage concerns as required by the NEC.
DickDV
Member
lesmar96, be sure to include jraef's addition in the "package" I proposed. It is good advice.
As to using 230V, it cuts the magnitude of the noise at the source by half (I have seen claims that it reduced by the square of the voltage reduction but I don't have any way to confirm). Either way, my experience is that it is greatly reduced. And, at these low motor hps, doubling the FLA on the motor still leaves you with 12 gauge wire.
Regarding the sine filter voltage spec, I would contact the manufacturer. It very well may be that a 480V filter will work the same on 230V. Check it out. Also, check other manufacturers like MTE and Hammond.
As to using 230V, it cuts the magnitude of the noise at the source by half (I have seen claims that it reduced by the square of the voltage reduction but I don't have any way to confirm). Either way, my experience is that it is greatly reduced. And, at these low motor hps, doubling the FLA on the motor still leaves you with 12 gauge wire.
Regarding the sine filter voltage spec, I would contact the manufacturer. It very well may be that a 480V filter will work the same on 230V. Check it out. Also, check other manufacturers like MTE and Hammond.
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