PLC software costs

Over the past few days of trying to procure Siemens software for a contract our company is managing, I must say I am shocked at what could almost be construed as exploitation with regards to the costs of PLC software.

In addition to the software having a shockingly high purchase price, our local agent no longer supplies single-licenses with the software, which means the full price of the application has to be paid for EVERY user.

While proprietary software companies most certainly have the right to charge whatever they like for software, I see several problems with this approach:

A) Small to mid-sized companies as local agents might find it very difficult to 'legally' provide support on systems that have been supplied with this hardware.

B) It is extremely difficult for a prospective automation entrepeneur to broach the market considering the exceptionally high purchase price of the support software.

C) Surely the manufacturers shoot themselves in the foot by charging so much for essential tools, obviously limiting the market share.

D) It makes it almost impossible for new trainees to gain experience on specific PLC platforms.

As such, I don't see how the business approach allows for such high prices, since I would see charging a reasonable price for high-quality software the best possible method of expanding your market-share.

Is this the case outside of South Africa as well, or is it just here where the software is ridiculously expensive?

Well, do you charge time for the PLC logic you write? Or do you give that away for free?
How about HMI design and programming? Surely, you don't charge clients for that time!
I also assume that every piece of program code (PLC, HMI, PC) that your company publishes is given to the customer free of license, right? I mean, they can take it and use it in any copies of your designs without fee, right?

Here we go again...

This canal has been dredged over and over here. A search will show the routine bashing AB takes for charging for software and support. Surprise, all the other major players charge too.

There are PLC and HMI products on the market that have FREE programming software. If you need some ideas, just ask. Vote with your feet - stop buying and using what you find to be of no value to you - i.e. programming software - and the market will adjust eventually.

I personally find value in some of these products and in fact I find enough value that I am actually willing to pay for it. So I apologize to you, and everyone else, who wants free stuff that I am not able to help force the market to a free software model. I wouldn't complain if it was free, but right now I have a choice, and in some cases I choose to pay.

That's most certainly not what I said in my post. What I did comment on was the exhorbitant prices charged for these applications.

When I charge for my services I ensure that I don't charge a fee which will result in losing the customer.

robertkjonesjr said:

Here we go again...

This canal has been dredged over and over here. A search will show the routine bashing AB takes for charging for software and support. Surprise, all the other major players charge too.

There are PLC and HMI products on the market that have FREE programming software. If you need some ideas, just ask. Vote with your feet - stop buying and using what you find to be of no value to you - i.e. programming software - and the market will adjust eventually.

I personally find value in some of these products and in fact I find enough value that I am actually willing to pay for it. So I apologize to you, and everyone else, who wants free stuff that I am not able to help force the market to a free software model. I wouldn't complain if it was free, but right now I have a choice, and in some cases I choose to pay.

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As I said, I would if I had the choice, but oft times local customers need support on systems I didn't design or procure the hardware for.

I most certainly didn't in any way comment that I expect companies not to charge for their software.

I agree with Boswell, I am a troubleshooter for the company I work for, and to be able to do my job properly, I have to have the software to fault find, which has cost the company an absolute fortune. We have so many different platforms, some I had not even heard of before I started here. Take controllogix for example, you need each version of software for the different model/version of processor, why dont they just have one version of software that works with all the different processors?

briancr said:

why dont they just have one version of software that works with all the different processors?

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So change your platform to OMRON!
Their CX-ONE software is a comprehensive package with ALL software for ALL products. PLC + HMI + MOTION + COMMUNICATIONS all at a reasonable cost and FREE support!

boswellw said:

As I said, I would if I had the choice, but oft times local customers need support on systems I didn't design or procure the hardware for.

I most certainly didn't in any way comment that I expect companies not to charge for their software.

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So? Have the customer provide a workstation with the software, or let another company service the account.

This is a ridiculous topic that comes up time and again. You don't want to use "Vendor X", don't. End of story.

I might very well consider changing platforms in future designs due simply to the astronomical cost. Like I stated though, I don't see how chasing customers away due to unreasonable prices in any way translates into clever business strategy for these companies.

this doesn't help when providing support on machines that I haven't designed though.

Considering that the price of a MINOR (0.1) revision upgrade of Step 7 is a third of the cost of the total package, I don't see how such high prices can be justified.

rdrast said:

So? Have the customer provide a workstation with the software, or let another company service the account.

This is a ridiculous topic that comes up time and again. You don't want to use "Vendor X", don't. End of story.

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You seem to spend a fair amount of time on a topic that seems to offend you. If you don't like the topic, don't read it.

End of story.

Similarly, if you had read my original post, you would understand that what you are arguing now has no relevance to my original question.

rdrast said:

So? Have the customer provide a workstation with the software, or let another company service the account.

This is a ridiculous topic that comes up time and again. You don't want to use "Vendor X", don't. End of story.

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As I said in my reply, i am a troubleshooter, not a programmer, although i do do programming at times. In the company i work for, we use a lot of highly specialised equipment, so shopping around or specifying the type of platform is not easy, so we have to take whatever platform the OEM supplies, hence the wide variety of platforms I have to work with, for example Siemens 200, 300, 400, S5. Lenze drive plc. AB SLC, Contrologix, Mitsubishi, Omron, Beckhoff, B&R, Modicon, LS, a couple of inhouse brands. So each type of platform has to have its own software as you are aware, and it doesnt come cheap.

For me to supply a service to production and keep machines in an available state, i have to have the software.

A bit of useless information, the company i work for, without mentioning the product we produce, is the second biggest in the world after a company in America, and the biggest in the Southern Hemisphere, so we are talking not a few PLC's, we have a lot of them

@ bits and bytes

yes cx-one is a very nice package

@Briancr ... That is your companies fault. There is no reason whatsoever to mix and match in that fashion. Pick a platform, and standardize. Then again, if the company is that big, they can afford the costs.

@Boswell, just pointing out the facts of life. You want free software, and clients to conform to you for your comfort. That isn't the real world. It's just that this idiotic topic comes up almost as often as the elevator question does. Do a bloody search, no need to rehash everything.

I don't see how chasing customers away due to unreasonable prices in any way translates into clever business strategy for these companies.

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Unreasonable in whose opinion? To me, the quality of the software should reflect its price. For example: I regularly spend many hours in front of my computer using RSLogix 500, which I believe to be a well-designed and stable piece of software. For this reason, I'm more than willing to pay (or have my company pay) $1200 for a license. The time savings that comes with using an efficient programming tool more than covers the purchase price.

Unfortunately, programming software seems to be an afterthought for many PLC manufacturers. I've listened to a few salesmen of off-brand PLC hardware bragging about the "free" programming software available for their units. Sounds great until you sit down to try it out, and it looks and operates like it was written by some college student in his dorm room.

The idea that the high purchase price could deter trainees from learning the software doesn't hold water, at least as far as Allen-Bradley is concerned. Buy either a Micrologix 1000 or 1100 and RSLogix is FREE. Certainly AB had training in mind when they made this marketing decision.

It's not whether or not it's fair or reasonable to charge high prices for the software. It's the value of the software. Without the software, the company using the PLC products will lose production. The software companies are able to charge high prices due to the high profitability of the products made by the users of their hardware.

Even if downtime only costs $50/minute, the boss will write a check for five grand in a heartbeat. He might b*tch and moan, but he'll write the check.

I think the prices are getting relatively better. RSLogix500 is now available in a micro edition for free to help with the educational side of things, and competition from companies like Red Lion and Automation Direct is certainly having an effect on the competition.

I am not so sure about the "you get what you pay for". Just compare FTView Studio ME with Crimson 3.0

I am pretty sure about "you pay what they can get for it".

Originally posted by boswellw:

As such, I don't see how the business approach allows for such high prices, since I would see charging a reasonable price for high-quality software the best possible method of expanding your market-share.

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That is obviously not the case. These are all for-profit enterprises. Do you really think that they would not lower their prices if they thought it would make a difference for profits? The marketing departments of these companies have looked into this hard enough to know where they industry acceptable price point is.

Said another way, if I cut my price in half and pick up an additional 80% in customer base, have I increased my profits?

Also, if the software were there for the sake of the software alone (like Word or Excel or Power Point) then the cost of the software may be a bigger issue. However, software seat is a relatively small portion of the total life cycle cost of a control system. That is why end users don't often go nuts over these costs. It is the system integrators and service companies that pay the price. But that is just the cost of doing business. No different that the lights, the rent or the car payment.

Keith