Can you recommend the proper direction on SLC500

xcode

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I am new to PLC's. I have read many of the online PDF, websites, and found this site via Utube.
I want to setup a SLC 500 5/03 to do some logic for outputing to a device ( relay 1746-OW16 ) maybe?
What the input device will be is a Proface 577R panel LCD box. There will be 64 buttons assigned to on when pushed, off when released. One shot push is fine.
The output of this to the SLC 500 will become my matrix logic.
I have 8 inputs X0-X7, and 8 inputs Y0-Y7 ... any combination of these at reference closed switch creates an output to the respective pins on a motherboard.
X0 Y0
X1 Y1
X2 Y2
------
X7 Y7
X0 Y0 = Start
X0 Y1 = Coolant
X0 Y2 = Tool in

Like that... Now, my thought was 64 relays. Each relay creates a complete circuit and I get signal at the motherbroad. Then I thought, well I should only need 16 relays and get the logic worked out in the PLC for 64 inputs, and output to 16 relays that sets up the logic.
X0 Y1 X1 Y1 X2 Y1 X3 Y1
X0 Y2 X1 Y2 X2 Y2 X3 Y2
and on down the line using all combinations of X0-X7 Y0-Y7 ( 8 squared I believe ) 64
There is NO voltage or current involved with the complete of the circuit. It is just a reference to ground. Close the switch, get a complete circuit. The completed circuit sets up a 1 or 0 ( hi or low ) on the motherboard. Not referring to the logic inside the PLC.
So, do I use a relay setup and can I use 16, or do I need 64 ?
Can I only use outputs on module 1746-OBP16 ?
booleen math maybe?
Thanks for any direction you can give me.
 
Your explanation leaves something to be desired. Can you explain how the motherboard would be hooked up normally if there were no PLC at all? Is it a commercial product with some web information? This information would be a big help.

If, as I suspect, the motherboard expect a matrix of up to 64 switches then you should be able to use the OW16. Hook the first 8 relays to the 'X' terminals. Hook the second 8 relays to the 'Y terminals. Then, on the OW16, connect the two commons together. You would energize one of the first 8 and one of the second 8 for 64 combinations.
 
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Mickey - I didn't get that he was trying to use the AUX connection from the Proface panel. I understood that it would be hooked up in a standard way to a PLC. The PLC would interpret the button presses, activating output relay contacts which would be wired to a 'motherboard' (undefined) 'X' and 'Y' terminals.
 
Mickey - I didn't get that he was trying to use the AUX connection from the Proface panel. I understood that it would be hooked up in a standard way to a PLC. The PLC would interpret the button presses, activating output relay contacts which would be wired to a 'motherboard' (undefined) 'X' and 'Y' terminals.

YUP, You are most likely right. That's why I added my last sentence." I could be all wrong on this though"
It just seems like an odd thing to do, to me.
 
Hi..

Thank you for trying to understand my needs to give me direction.

My Proface is the one someone posted the link to the PDF. It will communicate on the serial port to the SLC 500. I have already verified that with Proface support. I have the 5/03 CPU. 7 rack. various module cards. Inputs, outputs, relay... Whatever I need I will get.

Let me post a picture of what I have, and where I want to go.

The attached pic is of a backside of a keyboard that only provides continuity when a button is pressed. There is 8 data lines from this keyboard to the motherboard of the computer. The computer is an old 286. The keyboard is talking to a chip that provides the scancodes format 2. So, I am not having to provide scancode information at all.

These 8 data lines are attached to this keyboard in a what I call matrix layout. Some of the buttons are attached to each other on the respective data line. There are about 7 buttons per data line. 7 times 8 is 56, but there is a couple of strokes where 2 buttons are pushed at the same time and you get 2 closed data lines at the same time making up the 60 total inputs from this keyboard.

since there is 8 data lines, and the combination makes up 2 pairs of any given closed circuits, that is 8 squared, 64 possible combinations of closed contacts.

I want to replace this keyboard with a PLC to do the work so that my LCD HMI can handle the button part.

So, Proface ( buttons ) to PLC ( close relays ) to 286 mother board where it is interpreted as scancodes by the motherboard.

So, my question is... does the ladder logic need to provide 64 combination's of relay closing, or can I do it on 16 relays?

do I need to use Boolean logic instead?

Ok, why am I doing this? Just because I want to. The keyboard is broken, and it happens alot on this machine. The keyboard is $300 new. I want a nice updated LCD push button solution.

I upgraded the old green screen CRT monitor to LCD already, so now I want LCD touchscreen buttons.

As you can see in the picture, the 8 data lines with that pin connector. 56 physical buttons with 60 actual combination's of output, but 64 is really possible. They just used 60.

All I need to know is what type of logic you guys would use. Relay only? Boolean? How many relays? 16 or 60?

keyboard.jpg
 
The setup in my first response would only be able to provide the effect of one key closure at a time. If you use any of the 2 or 3 key sequences this may not work.
 
This thread is really confusing!!!

So you have a "machine" with a worn out $300 keyboard.
You want to replace the keyboard with a $??? Proface HMI and an SLC5/03 $??? "lash up" ?

You say the keyboard wearing out is a regular thing; you think the HMI will stand up better to abuse?

I feel there is a need to over-complicate things here if my understanding is correct.
 
Yup. Learning is dangerous for some of us in life. Once I put my mind to do a project, I am there to the end. I want a LCD touchscreen keyboard.

I purchased a Keystroke generator but decided going in via the keyboard connection point was a better approach so I did not have to reverse engineer the scancodes for the keystrokes.

I could have connected a 101 keyboard and starting pushing buttons unitl all the functions were discovered, but then I would have needed to try and make a programmable 101 keyboard fit in a 10 inch by 12 inch space.

The hardware was really cheap on ebay. I am sure alot of you all purchase or sell there. $2000 dollar units in there day for $200 bucks now. No different than PC computers. My Dell XPS420 was $1500 the day I got it, and today it might bring $300. That is only 2 years old.
 
Im a bit like Timbo in why would you.

My suggestion, put picture of keyboard on screen, buy a USB $20 mouse to operate keyboard, when mouse wears out buy another $20 mouse.
 
Im a bit like Timbo in why would you.

My suggestion, put picture of keyboard on screen, buy a USB $20 mouse to operate keyboard, when mouse wears out buy another $20 mouse.


My suggestion to any troll is to start your own thread on how to look stupid.

Because we all know that the ladder logic for this is

> Stupid is > Stupid does

A 1993 machine running a 286SX processor does not have a USB anything, and on top of that, I am pretty sure I can do what I want to with my machine I personally own and operate.
 
xcode, no criticism meant :oops:

Is this a "home" project then? Is that keyboard going directly to a (custom) card in the PC?

The more info we have the the better opinions you will get.
Is this more of a "learning excuse" to allow you to get some experience? Have you costed the additional AB card/s? Do you have the software allready?

Yes I know lots of questions!

Have you considered a hardwired grid of (say) 22.5mm standard push buttons on a plate? You could then change single worn out ones?

Is it just the ENTER key or similar thats worn? Could you trace the tracks out and hard wire a replacement button across it?

Just ideas, we dont know the usage of your "machine"
 
The only occasion I have seen what I think you are describing is, a case 20 years ago where they had an output card sending out 1 of 8 outputs at a time, to a grid that was connected to 8 inputs from the grid, the timing of this gave 64 options now this could be your key board,

My comment related to the fact I replaced this unit with a panelview which cured our maintenance problems that were difficult to fault find.

If this is a learning exercise go for it I had to learn how it worked so I could replace it.
 
The machine is a CNC Mill. 1993 Fadal. I have already updated my CRT green screen monitor to a nice LCD 12.1 smoking blue with white letters unit. Now the keyboard has got to go. It needs a more modern solution of LCD touchscreen. Then when I am done with learning on hacking into the PC unit of this machine, I will buy another and move to installing my own motion control system. I can already do this today with AMD drives, and Galil control card, but I am not ready to that that until I understand a few more things about PLC in general.

I already own the AB SLC 500 with a 5/03 CPU and about 10 other input, output, relay, DC link, and a couple of others. I already own the Proface 577R because again, it was reasonable priced.

I have access to a laptop with a valid licensed RSlogix 500 I think it is. I am not ready to use that just yet however.

I am having some problems getting low cost access to GP Pro PBIII, but at $400 for a product key and license, I might have to do that and it is just part of the next project I do.

I do not want a push button keyboard. I can do that all day long.

The machine is in my shop that I personally run. I have 2 of everything however, so I can experiment on one, and still use the other.

The keyboard talks to a custom per say IO card. I am sure that the scan codes are standard 1 or 2 for the timeframe 1986. The Fadal machines got the 88HS pendant up to at least 2004 I think. They are all the same with only slight revisions.

Please remember this is not that complicated. Its 8 data lines that make up like I posted to start with...

X0 Y0 = Start
X0 Y1 = Stop
X0 Y2 = Coolant

Simple close the switch and get a complete circuit to create a low at the IO card. There is no voltage or current. Just a completed circuit.

60 keys.

8 data lines. That is 64 possible combinations.
 
Ok guys. I have the hardware wired on paper. Piece of cake with Bernie's suggestion using a 1746-OW16. It will require 4 modules. Good thing I have a 7 rack setup. One CPU and 4 OW-16 relays.

The OW16 is divided into 2 sections of 8 relays. L1 ( + as reference here ) and then wire the outputs on one common output L2 ( - as reference here ) ... L1 will go to X0, and L2 to Y0. Switching the relays will create X0-Y0 X0-Y1 X0-Y2 and so on..

I have that completely understood and I have already mapped out the 60 keys on the old keyboard, so I know this information to.

Now to the hard part.

Logic - the internet is full of 10 minute --- this is how you get started open the program and stare at it .. Flip some rungs on the screen and add XIC and OTE ... better remember however that XIC looks for 1, OTE go write a one or zero. OK, I have that. Wish it would have went into relay control logic.

I am guessing at this based on what I have seen so far.

SW1 ... . . OW unit1
---| |-------( )----- is the same as controlling a relay on the OW16.

My guess is my outside world Proface sends a signal to the PLC at address I:SW1 and that is 1, so OW unit 1 becomes 1 at address O:OP1 ( all values just made up in my head because I dont have a clue ) ... anyway, that turns on the X0 Y0 completed circuit and I have my start to doing 60 of these ladder rungs...

How close am I on the logic?
 
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