Simatic cross-project S7-connection

TomTom

Member
Join Date
Oct 2009
Location
The Hague
Posts
18
Hi all,

I'm working on a project where several suppliers deliver hardware and I want to connect to this equipment with an OPC server. Most suppliers used Siemens PLC's.
As far as I understand now I can connect to these devices by means of an S7-connection, but since I don't have their project data I need to configure an S7-connection with 'unknown project' and make sure the IP-address and TSAP are correct.
I've been reading a lot about this, but still have some questions:
- Will this connection potentially work, although I'll never merge the networks (I can't make a multi-project since I don't have their project data)?
- Do only I have to configure this connection on the OPC side or does the supplier also need to configure a connection with 'unknown project' in their device?
- What aspects of the connection should I especially take care of?

Thanks in advance for any advice, comments or ideas.

P.S.
- Communication with the OPC server was succesfull with an ET200S we programmed ourselves
- I'm using STEP7 v5.5
 
yes, it works. Have done it past.
You need only to configure on you PLC projet (Netpro), S7 connection, unknow projet, IP: x.x.x.x Rack 0/slot2.
ON partner PLC needs only have IP address and DB-area which you write / read.

Then on PLC code you need PUT and GET blocks, configure partner PLC DB block, own PLC DB block area and COM ID address is same than you have configured on Netpro for local ID. (it is on Hex-format on netpro). You also maybe need read/write sequencer for blocks.



samples: https://support.industry.siemens.co...sfer-between-two-s7-1500-cpus-?dti=0&lc=en-WW

https://support.industry.siemens.co...e-s7-program-of-an-s7-300-cpu-?dti=0&lc=en-WW

https://support.industry.siemens.co...r-more-than-160-bytes-of-data-?dti=0&lc=en-AT
 
If you have newer 1200 and 1500 PLCs, then I think that DB-blocks needs to be non optimized.
Also after you have loaded PUT / GET blocks and you code, give stop/start or power boot for your master PLC. It probably won't start communicate without reboot when you have loaded 1st time all communication blocks.
Learned that hard way after several hours of troubleshooting why PLCs won't communicate even that everything should be right ;)
Reboot is needed only 1st time after download of communication blocks
 
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The PLC I use is an ET200S, so problem there.
Quickly browsing your links, I don't think I'll be needing GET and PUT instructions, because I only need the OPC server to point at the right address (DBnumber+addresss). And, of course, the OPC server needs to have access to the DB through the S7-connection.

Thanks again!
 
you mean 151-8 PLC, which have 300 series functionality.
You are right, data should be possible to read directly with OPC server from PLCs. For that you need Simatic OPC server and csv list of tags and DB addresses for importing tags to OPC.

Another method would be read all data from one PLC via OPC (specified or unspecified), and that PLC would commicate with PUT/GET commands to other PLCs (unspefied connections).
 
Are you using Siemens OPC or something else? Since you mention some suppliers use other brands.
 
I haven't configured a connection for an OPC in the past...

As for the PLC comms through GET and PUT, isn't there an example where the blocks are reset on startup to overcome the comms freezing?
By the way, PUT and GET do not check if the partner PLC is running, so always put a rolling counter in the comms to avoid surprises.
 
edited, after I reread the 1st post.
You mention that "most" suppliers will use a Siemens S7 PLC. Well, chances are that some will be S7-1500. Your ET200S/IM151-8 is essentially an S7-300 of the previous generation.
If that is the case, and you cannot get these PLCs in one integrated TIA project, then you can still access these S7-1500 PLCs in a simple way. The suppliers must enable "access via PUT/GET" in their CPUs, and also allow read/write access, and finally the DBs to be accessed should not be optimized..
- Will this connection potentially work, although I'll never merge the networks (I can't make a multi-project since I don't have their project data)?
Yes.
- Do only I have to configure this connection on the OPC side
yes.
or does the supplier also need to configure a connection with 'unknown project' in their device?
no.
- What aspects of the connection should I especially take care of?
Nothing in particular. It is simple. ** with the above mentioned considerations if the PLCs are S7-1500.

If the suppliers are unwilling to allow PUT/GET access in their S7-1500 PLCs, we shall take it from there.
 
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Are you using Siemens OPC or something else? Since you mention some suppliers use other brands.

To be specific, on my side I use Simatic NET Softnet-IE S7 Lean, which includes an OPC UA server.

Supplier A uses an S7-1200. I think I managed to connect to this device today by using the earlier described method, except that I can't access the data in their designated DB, probably because the didn't make it available(?)

Supplier B uses an PN/PN-coupler through which I can access their data. They configured the X1 side of the coupler. I can configure the X2 side, but this hardware needs a controller on the X2 side. This requires another license in the OPC server, namely Softnet-IE PNIO (which somehow makes an active controller out of the OPC server).

Supplier C uses a different brand of PLC (unknown to me), but has the plan to communicate through a Weintek HMI, that supports S7-connections.

The idea is to collect assembly and test data and store it in a database for future reference, if a problem occurs with a particular product. So, product traceability purposes.
 
TomTom said:
Supplier B uses an PN/PN-coupler through which I can access their data. They configured the X1 side of the coupler. I can configure the X2 side, but this hardware needs a controller on the X2 side. This requires another license in the OPC server, namely Softnet-IE PNIO (which somehow makes an active controller out of the OPC server).
A PN/PN Coupler is not suited to connect a supervisory LAN and a machine LAN. It is suited to connect dissimilar machine LANs.

In you case, you need a router between the supervisory LAN and the machine LAN.
Or, a NAT router.
Or, an independent network CP in the machine, reserved for only connecting the supervisory LAN to the machine.
 
..., and also allow read/write access, and finally the DBs to be accessed should not be optimized..

If the suppliers are unwilling to allow PUT/GET access in their S7-1500 PLCs, we shall take it from there.

Thanks, JesperMP, for your additional comments.
Some questions:
- Regardless of the type of Simatic PLC, don't I need to get access to their PLC anyway?
- What does it mean for DB's to be optimized or not optimized?
Today I think I managed to connect to the S7-1200 PLC, but couldn't access their DB. Could it be they used this optimized option on their DB's? [Update: I've searched the internet and found out that also an S7-1200 uses optimized blocks by default, so I guess that's the problem, although I don't know if the OPC server also needs non-optimized blocks to access them...?]
- Do you think I still need PUT/GET access with an S7-1500 PLC if I only want to access data through an OPC server?

Thank in advance.
 
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A PN/PN Coupler is not suited to connect a supervisory LAN and a machine LAN. It is suited to connect dissimilar machine LANs.

In you case, you need a router between the supervisory LAN and the machine LAN.
Or, a NAT router.
Or, an independent network CP in the machine, reserved for only connecting the supervisory LAN to the machine.

Yes, I discussed this part with Siemens as well, and they mentioned the same. It's just that I'm for now stuck with this solution the supplier provided (they're not located in the area). And I can work my way around it by either purchasing the required Simatic NET PNIO license for the OPC server or connect a PLC to the X2 side that collects the data and makes it available to the OPC server through S7-connection.
Do you see any potential harm in these solutions (apart from being not elegant)?
 

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