Any mechanical engineers here?

Also an ME. As others have said, an understanding of what you're controlling is at least as important as how the signals are processed. Factories/machinery see plenty of MEs as controls guys; in the chemical/process world they see a lot of Chemical Engineers as controls guys for the same reason.

Since I didn't get an electrical degree I may be mistaken, but I suspect that neither PLC programming nor knowledge of the national electric code was part of the standard curriculum for EE's.

Warning: I know degrees work differently in different countries and even at different universities. This post has a massive US based slant. Not sure how this applies elsewhere.

Strictly speaking, most ME or EE degrees are the wrong education for someone who wants a degree in how to be a controls engineers. Its all theory. Most EE degrees would teach you how to design a PLC, not use one. Most ME degrees would teach you how to design a machine, not control it. At least at my university, the more practical knowledge was housed in the "technology" degrees (Mechanical Engineering Technology, Mechatronics, etc). If an ME wanted to take a course in CAD or anything practical, it was an MET class. MET or EET would be much more likely to actually have a class where you do labs on PLCs and drives.

I'm not knocking a solid understanding of theory. If you can calculate why XYZ is happening, then you can solve a lot more problems then you can with only practical knowledge. But don't look at an engineering degree as something that will have much coursework that's directly applicable to a specific job, especially one like controls that pulls at least as much from trades as it does from engineering.

The "best" controls guys I've worked with have all had engineering degrees. The most effective controls guys I've worked with all learned from the school of hard knocks, and usually started out in the trades.

Thanks for reply everyone. What is the best way to start? Buy book, second hand plc or what?
Thanks again

So my advice would be to try to find an internship where you can get some hands-on experience. Having any relevant experience would be a huge advantage for when you look for a full-time job after college

Treellama suggested an internship where you can get hands on experience. This is probably the best way to get started: be in a situation where an employer will pay you for getting the hands on practical training.

If you can't do that, then I'd recommend getting some hardware for yourself, as you said. Siemens equipment is very common in Europe. Get yourself an S7-1200 and Step 7 Basic (not free, unfortunately). Siemens has a mini-curriculum they make available for colleges, you can run through it yourself (see link below). Used hardware is an option; Siemens also has discounted starter kits you can buy if you talk to a distributor.

http://w3.siemens.com/mcms/sce/en/advanced_training/training_material/Pages/default.aspx


I'd also recommend taking some general programming classes in college. Doesn't matter whether it's C, C#, C++, Basic, Fortran, Pascal, Java, Python, whatever. The more languages you know (or are at least familiar with), the easier it is to pick up new languages/platforms. It also gives you flexibility, and doesn't tie you down to one skill set. As others have said, PLCs are only a small part of what a controls engineer does.

There's nothing wrong with being an expert at one thing, but controls guys typically need to be generalists. Being good at everything is often more valued than being great at one thing.
 
From the "How did they get here from there" Dept., one of the best Controls Engineers that I've ever worked with was a former landscaper. Another a preacher, a rancher, and several draftsmen.

Toolmakers seem to "get it", as do the odd pipefitter and millwright.
 
Thanks for reply everyone. What is the best way to start? Buy book, second hand plc or what?
Thanks again

From the PLC perspective, I'd start with the "learn PLC's" link at the top of this page. Then move on from there to Logix Pro from The Learning Pit (google it). That should serve to get your head around things a little. From there, if you can justify it, book in for one of Ron Beaufort's boot camp classes - he's a member here, and his classes are very highly regarded. That will absolutely get you moving in the right direction. After that, I'd be trying to get a job somewhere you can tinker with PLC's in your spare time. I spent a while as a night shift tech in a factory where every PLC was networked and available from the workshop PC. If I had a quiet night, I'd go looking through PLC code for something I didn't understand, and then try to make sense of it before the sun came up. Having access to 40-50 PLC's, all coded by different people with different strategies and different ideas and different levels of expertise gave me a very broad range of ideas on how you can (and in some cases, shouldn't) program a PLC. If you can't immediately get yourself such a position then buying a PLC to play with would be a good way to experiment. For my money, I'd recommend the Allen-Bradley 1769-L16ER-BB1B. It's very cost-effective for what it is, although the software isn't cheap.

As for the electrical background knowledge side of things - I've come into PLC programming via an industrial electrical/instrumentation apprenticeship, so the electrical background knowledge has just always been a given. I actually have no idea what people who come in from a different path do to fill in the electrical blanks!
 
I actually have no idea what people who come in from a different path do to fill in the electrical blanks!

Although I originally have a non-technical professional background (later switched to engineering), I have tinkered with mechanical and electrical things from early childhood. From the tinkering I knew how to read electrical schemes. It takes some practice to move up from single A4/legal sheet size schedules to 100+ printed pages schedules, but the basics remain the same. I find it an important skill in my job.
 
Mechanical Engineer by degree here but always had a bent toward computers. Had a TI 99/4A as a kid (BASIC language was the operating system on that thing) and took a class in BASIC in High School. In college took the requisite FORTRAN in the 1980's but also took an assembly language class for "fun". I worked in the computer center on the help desk where I answered a lot of questions on Pascal even though I didn't really know pascal (still don't really).

Out of school I was strictly doing ME work except for some customization to early AutoCAD which was done in LISP (By the way, LISP stands for Lots of Irritating Stupid Parenthesis - No, it actually stands for List Processing but if you ever look at a LISP program you will agree with the first definition).

I got into PLC programming because I was working at a very small (5 ppl) company and the owner/electrical engineer was afraid of computers. He would write out the logic on B size paper on his drafting table and needed someone to type it into the computer. When I got there and wasn't afraid of computers, that became me. It didn't take me long to figure out what was going on and to start doing small changes on my own. Eventually I started writing my own sections of code and eventually programs for entire machines. The early stuff was't pretty. I didn't know about putting code into different files on a PLC and I remember one machine had almost 1000 rungs in a single file. ;) After we had a customer demand we use an HMI on a project he was done. I did all the controls after that.

It was also there that I realized that ladder language is really just visual assembly language. A little different than when I took assembly on the mainframe at school but definitely the And/Or structures were all the same.

What I really lacked back then was an understand of power circuits. If I had it to do over again, I would have spent time learning about the 3 phase motor circuits and how to size components and wire.

I pretty much consider my engineering degrees as where I was learning how to learn. In that respect ME, EE not much difference so long as you bring the right attitude to it. I will say that at least in the things I have worked on, at the end, the goal has always been to make something move. An ME background could have some advantage there if you pay attention in statics and dynamics class. Of course, there are electrical analogs for pretty much all mechanical systems so the information is still there but just not as easy to see.

Lots of other great suggestions in this thread as well.
 
I started out as a controls only technician with very little conduit running and wire pulling. Soon after taking the position it became very clear that mechanical knowledge is just as important.

As far as distribution goes in the US, it depends on company policy and code inspectors. Typical industrial licensing requirements depends on insurance mostly and most industries have their own liability insurance in my experience. Most plants also try to keep licensed electrician's around for the liability thing. Commercial and Residential requires permits and this kind of thing varies on the "jurisdiction having authority" which is the local code inspector in my town. Industrial doesn't get inspected and is required to handle their own liability completely. Commercial and Residential requires at least a permit to be pulled under a Master's license. Generally a fee, but people do tend to get ****ed when you tell them they did the work wrong. Too bad, our company's license and liability, you change it, we change it, or permit gets revoked and job can't be inspected or moved further along.

As far a learning, I spend most of my time after a year or so in doing exclusively electrical troubleshooting and controls working for an IT department. It was cool, but I was really weak mechanically. Now, not so much. I like to think of myself as the "cream of the crop" where I go because I get called when others fail to fix the problem, regardless of what craft it falls under.

Bottom line, you are stronger mechanically and need to learn electrical. I am strong electrically and in the IT side of the business, okay at fluid power and fairly weak mechanically, but you can see a part move. You can't see current flowing through a wire or voltage turning on a FET without a meter.

If you are going to be considered a controls guy, you will need to become proficient in all trades and aspects including some IT stuff. I'm even considering getting a mechanical engineering degree rather than an EE degree because I'm so much stronger in electrical than mechanical and I feel it would balance me out.

The codebook is pretty darn important. I never started really learning to use it until 6 months ago. It tells you how to design electrical infrastructure safely. It does you no good to build it if it burns up or worse.

+1 on the Mechatronics degree. I have an AAS to get me started down the path and am working on a BS now.
 
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I started of as a Domestic Electrician, Then went into fixing power presses, mechanical and electrical.

Now I'm the Senior Technician in a Tier 1 JLR supplier . I help run a maintenance team and do all the plc related work for a medium size factory.

Get the Software, play with it a load. if your a visual learner try and get on a week long course for Seimans or Allen Bradley. In Europe this is mostly what i have come across.

I find i learn a load just reading through PLC talk when ever i have a spare 5 mins,

Hope That Helps
 
Mechanical Engineer by degree here but always had a bent toward computers. Had a TI 99/4A as a kid (BASIC language was the operating system on that thing) and took a class in BASIC in High School. In college took the requisite FORTRAN in the 1980's but also took an assembly language class for "fun". I worked in the computer center on the help desk where I answered a lot of questions on Pascal even though I didn't really know pascal (still don't really).

Blatantly off topic here, but I've got a couple of old TI99's here. Sweet machines. :)
 

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