PLC puchase decision

Hi everyone.

I've got a new design that will require a PLC. I'm currently deciding between two:

1. AD DL06
2. Schneider Twido

The application is an electronically-controlled hydraulic gangway that will move disabled sailors from the pier down to the float. The safety systems are done by separate safety controllers.

The PLC will be in a case, but will be subject to temperatures of -20 to +40 (Celcius). Those are the record temperatures for this area. The case temperature could go even hotter on a hot day with the sun beating down on it. I have to put in a little strip heater and a fan into the case to make sure the PLC stays within the operating temperature.

I require 26 inputs and 18 outputs, which is why I'm looking at these two. (The Twido Extreme doesn't have enough I/O) I'd originally purchased an Omron Zen, but that didn't have enough ports. (By the way, I have an Omron Zen with expansion module for sale.)

I like the AD. The programming software seems easier to use, and the state diagram model looks really, really, easy. I've paid a lot more for programming environments that were a lot worse. (Embedded C) On the other hand, the Twido rep offered to spend a few hours with me to boost me over the learning curve.

What would be a good choice here? I'm new to PLC programming (but not programming in general) so I don't want to get something so ridiculously powerful that I end up shooting myself in the foot.

The price point is comparable. I'm looking at about $1000 for the DL06 with the expansion, software, and cables*, and the Twido is about $800 for the same.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate the help.

*Yes, I could make the cables, but it's cheaper to just buy it.

MasEngr,

If you go with the DL-06, there are 4 or 5 guys here (me included) who are willing and able to walk you through a program.

I don't know about the Twido.

Lancie1 said:

I don't know about the Twido.

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That's exactly the same sentiment I had, but with the emphasis on different words.

I'd like to see a simulator. There was one on that Omron that I bought. Is there one on the DirectSoft that I'm missing, or is there another program I can run to test the ladder code before I run it in situ?

Directsoft does not have a simulator, as of yet...

I'm a big fan of the DL06 and now use them almost exclusively. For a $200.00 investment you can buy a bare-bones DL06 and download the Demo software at no cost, and take it for a test drive.

The cost of the PLC should not be a major factor. If a less expensive PLC is more diffucult to program and has a longer learning curve, you will spend many times what you saved with the less expensive unit. Time is money; BIG money.

AD has by far the best tech support I have ever experienced from any vendor of any type. The manuals are easy reads and provide usable program examples. Purchasing an AD component is easy as a few clicks of the mouse on their website.

If you can program in ladder then there is nothing to Twidosoft or suite.
Every person using certain products will tell you to use the products they know. It all depends on wether you can get tech support in ur area and that the pricing is reasonable, and offcourse that the product isnt ****

I have used both brands pretty extensively, and would rate them both well. The software is pretty good for both, with similar downsides. I think that the methods for programming math, and the decimal (as opposed to octal) numbering make the Twido easier to program in ladder. The Twido is also physically smaller. I'd choose the Twido in a head to head matchup; in fact, I would pick it with up to a three point spread.

Magnus, I believe it is pretty difficult to make the decision of which PLC system to purchase. There are so many differences between each brand and each have their own benefits and faults. I have used several. Allen Bradley, Keyence, Mitusbishi, Siemens, and…… AutomationDirect. With myself, it has boiled down to the fact that not only is designing and building the system important, but how simple is it to expand, troubleshoot, and maintain the system after it has been commissioned.

I work in the R & D department of a large plumbing equipment manufacturing plant. We engineer and build automated manufacturing machines for the company. Over the years, I have discovered that the Koyo systems that AutomationDirect markets is far superior to any other…….hands down. At this point, we are now employing exclusively their systems into our designs. The DL205 with the DL260 cpu is a fantastic piece of equipment. The only draw back to their systems is that the development and programming of the Stepper drives (CTRIO) are very “Program Intensive”. We have got around this by incorporating the “Plug-n-Play” controllers from Dahnaher Motion. The decision to convert to the Koyo systems was largely based on the tech support that they have. These guys “Rock”…..! Not one time have these guys let me down. It is usual that while speaking with them about a difficulty, they usually will suggest a better way of performing a task. They spend the time to do it right. I think if you were to call the other “well known brand” of PLC tech support………..the first question that is asked- “what is you support contract number?” This is not to say that they do not know what they are doing……..but it will come at a price. The up front expense of the initial purchase is not the only cost that you need to think about. The programming software is another issue. RS programming is expensive and comes with many licensing issues. AD software is inexpensive, easy to understand and navigate, and comes automatically with the 1-800# for support.

I gave away the Twido a long time ago because, mainly, the software is absolutely lousy. My Schneider rep agrees with me. The Twido is a modified IDEC (Izumi).

Have not used DL at all but had a look at there software and would describe it as 'OK' only.

If you have had a look at Omron have a look at the CP1L series - new. USB programming port - 2 high speed counters built in etc. Quite inexpensive and the same function set as the CJ1 and CS1 PLCs. The function set is over 400 functions. Very usable for a small PLC.

By the way, until the CP1L came out I was looking very hard for a decent shoebox at a decent price with good functionality because the Omron CPM1A had had it's day quite frankly. Have now stopped looking because I cannot find a shoebox with the functionality of this little beasty.

I agree with twidosoft Bob, but the latest twidosuite is a big improvement on twidosoft. Just google it,its a free download.

BDKuhns said:

Magnus, I believe it is pretty difficult to make the decision of which PLC system to purchase. There are so many differences between each brand and each have their own benefits and faults. I have used several. Allen Bradley, Keyence, Mitusbishi, Siemens, and…… AutomationDirect. With myself, it has boiled down to the fact that not only is designing and building the system important, but how simple is it to expand, troubleshoot, and maintain the system after it has been commissioned.

I work in the R & D department of a large plumbing equipment manufacturing plant. We engineer and build automated manufacturing machines for the company. Over the years, I have discovered that the Koyo systems that AutomationDirect markets is far superior to any other…….hands down. At this point, we are now employing exclusively their systems into our designs.

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I think thats a bit of a stretch to say AD is 'far superior than any other'

My experience with AD wasnt so good and I tend towards either Siemens or AB. I wouldnt touch the new Schneider line with a barge pole, however.
Then again I guess I'm not building machines either.
I tend towards the more popular brands on the market for two reasons: Depth of Tech support and breadth of solutions.
when there is a huge installed base of a prticular product then theres going to be more people calling tech support. As such if you have a problem theres a good chance someone else has already had that problem and theres either a workaround or its been patched/fixed.
Breadth of solutions mean that if I need something a bit off-the-wall or for a specialist application a big vendor will generally have something that will accomodate that. For example I am doing a Motoman work cell project and the customer wants to use ASi bus equipment. AD is no use to me there - they dont support it.
Siemens does.
Another customer bought an AB intellicenter and wants to interface to it.
Obviously I have to use something that supports a DeviceNet Scanner.
A local refinery wants to put in a redundant ESD system on a new process unit that adheres to certain standards. It has to be SIL2 or above.
It goes on and on.....

I agree with twidosoft Bob, but the latest twidosuite is a big improvement on twidosoft. Just google it,its a free download.

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Will have a look. Did they get rid of that stupid online/offline rubbish and put the lot in one window? I generally program via I/O addresses and not symbols. Do you still have to type in %I------ or have they made that sensible? I know with Omron I just type in a number such as 100.00 which is channel 100 bit 00. Heck of a lot easier to me. Old fashioned you see but I generally have to write programs very quickly and use the keyboard exclusively when I can.

You still have to address an input as %Ix.y, where x is the position of the card and y is the input number. You can also assign a tag name and use that.

The old modicons was just i1.0 for example. Then the IEC and (siemens) forced schneider to go to the %i syntax. Now they cancelled that idea. Its not scheider. IEC forced them to do it

chud said:

I agree with twidosoft Bob, but the latest twidosuite is a big improvement on twidosoft. Just google it,its a free download.

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I used an early release of Twidosoft which was given away free: and that was too expensive. The other fascinating little feature was the analogue input card. You have to configure whether its voltage or current via software (as I remember). It defaults to voltage (0 to 10 I think) with a maximum of 15V. Trouble is, most current output transducers give 24V into a high impedance like a voltage input - so the card fries before you have time to configure it. We got a free replacement and disconnected the transducer before the card was configured 2nd time round. I just think its a poor feature (no warnings in the documentation, other than the maximum for a voltage input). I'll never willingly use a Twido again, thank-you-very-much...

Never tried the AD, but i've extensively used Twido and i can tell you that you can't go wrong with that. With the latest TwidoSuite programming software, everything works just fine.

Just my two cents.