How to set up a plant network to monitor all

bright676

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Nov 2012
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All of our PLCs on all lines are 5/04s, about 15 of them. All run DH+ to panelviews and panelview plus's.

I would like to be able to monitor the PV+s in the office and do trends with them.

How would I get started on this endeavor? Ethernet is not a current option.
 
In the past when DH+ was all we had, we would put in a PLC that acted as a data concentrator, collecting data from all of the other PLCs (via DH+). Then the SCADA, or PC based HMI, would simply interact with the data concentrator. Did this type of architecture several times. The requirements for reporting on the office PCs will dictate what s/w tool is needed (SCADA, etc) to get the data out of the concentrator.
 
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Why isn't Ethernet an option ? Or do you just mean hardwired Ethernet isn't an option ?

What exactly do you want to do with the data in the PV+ terminals ? Do you want to see the screens, or just duplicate their trend objects ?

You could run DH+ cables to each of the systems, and use Ethernet/DH+ converters, or USB/DH+ interfaces, or obsolete PCI/DH+ cards. You could re-address some or all of the DH+ nodes.

Or you could survey the systems and see if the DF1 ports on the SLC-5/04 controllers are available, and see if DF1 access to the PLCs will do what you wish.

Ruling out the most common, fast, and cost-effective networking technology is of course going to suggest some inquiry and justification.
 
Get a PC with "about 15" com ports, and run an rs232 cable to each machine. Plug into the spare com port of the panel view, or where not available, the spare comm port of the slc5/04 and enable passthrough.
 
As I said Ethernet is not an option for the 5/04s, (not 5/05s) Adding money to an old system is not an option.

I appreciate all the answers on what I should do, I am more interested in how to do it.
 
Jerk, See below

That rules everything out then :p
Still a jerk...
The only option I can think of with no money is this:
Your operators could put their mobile phones in their top breast pocket, camera facing outwards, and cut a hole in the pocket if necessary to allow the camera to see out.
Then from your office, just whatsapp the operators until you get one near enough a machine you want to look at. For control, just yell commands at the operators.

Are you kidding, Or just showing how ignorant you are? mobile phones are not allowed on the floor.
 
That rules everything out then :p

The only option I can think of with no money is this:
Your operators could put their mobile phones in their top breast pocket, camera facing outwards, and cut a hole in the pocket if necessary to allow the camera to see out.
Then from your office, just whatsapp the operators until you get one near enough a machine you want to look at. For control, just yell commands at the operators.

Now this is the kind of innovation our Managers love. Let me know if you ever need a job, Australian.

To the OP... everything costs money. For any project to be successful, you need to define exactly what the desired outcome is for whoever is paying for this work. Then see what budget they have. If you can't do what they need for the money they have, then either they need to reduce their scope (i.e. Do one machine now, then another in 6 months), or increase the budget. Any other approach is destined to fail.

Also, the SLC range is now considered very "mature". Someone is gonna need to spend some money in the next few years if uptime is important and they are expecting to keep these machines running for the foreseeable future. Getting in Ethernet is at least a good first step in that process.
 
Management is very aware of their situation with these old ScLs, I'm just trying to make my job easier so I dont have to go out to all of them for data.
 
How many cable meters are we talking:
* office to furthest machine
* Longest distance between any two machines

I apologise and revoke my earlier very poor attempt at humour.

I also forget what was possible via each connection to the earlier Panelview+ that presumably don't have their own built in ethernet port. Could you view the screen through these ports? Could you upload alarm history and historical data through these ports? I would play around a bit. Can you get what you want locally to one line using a laptop? If you can that would be a good place to start, just extend the cable and replicate.

When it's not possible, you will need to ditch the idea of going to a panelview+, and build a separate operator interface in the office to communicate directly with the PLCs. An RSView ME project could quickly be put together using the same projects that ran on the PV+, just changing the addressing to RS232.
Is your DH+ already linked machine to machine, or would you need to make this link in addition to the one to your office? Because I think a monolithic DH+ network would necessarily be 15 times slower than it is now, as only one communication can happen at a time.
 
RS232 would be annoyingly slow, limited on distance, and sensitive to plant electrical noise. RS422 would take care of two of three leaving speed a problem. The DH+ should be fine depending on the baud rate its currently running at (230K is highest).

The older PVs & PV+s don't do much more than provide simple in and outs with the operator.

Get the data into a concentrator and then you're dealing with just one connection to the PCs. A spare 5/04 will work fine for just 15 connections.
 
Thank you for clarifying: "Ethernet is not an option because the SLC-5/04's don't have Ethernet" makes more sense.

I would prefer a more detailed boundary condition than "Adding money to an old system is not an option". Solving a problem without cost is just as likely as solving a problem without time or effort.

In my opinion your options are:

  1. Connect the workcells into one or more DH+ networks and connect to a supervisory PC with USB.
  2. Connect the workcells into one or more DH+ networks and connect to a supervisory PC using a network gateway or 1756 chassis.
  3. Use a terminal server or gateway to connect to each of the SLC-5/04 controller's serial ports.

The 1784-U2DHP is said to "not be intended for permanent connection" but I have never understood exactly why. You would need one for each DH+ network you want to connect to.

A 1756 chassis with a 1756-ENBT and 1756-DHRIO (or several) is the classic way to integrate older DH+ based networks into an Ethernet based automation network.

The QTS/Prosoft EtherNet/IP to DH+ gateway module is functionally equivalent to the 1756 chassis used as a gateway.

Tying multiple machines together into a larger DH+ network obviously will require some cabling and effort. Most standalone systems are PLC = Node 1 and HMI = Node 2 and you will have to re-address some devices. And the DH+ networks will now be carrying more data, so there might be performance issues.

If your SLC-5/04's have RS-232 serial ports that are not used for other applications, you can add ordinary terminal servers that create virtual COM ports for your HMI, or protocol-aware EtherNet/IP to DF1 gateways like the Digi One IAP, the LanTronix UDS100-IAP or DR1-IAP, or the Real Time Automation unit. I would have to examine each of those to say if they will also support DF1/DH+ Passthrough to old PanelView Standard terminals.

Unfortunately, the PanelView Plus terminals onboard Ethernet ports don't allow you to "bridge" through to DH+ to access the SLC-5/04. Access to data inside the PV+ itself is going to be limited to remote display (VNC) or stuff that's logged to a shared directory or the FTP Server feature.
 
I maybe talking nonsense but perhaps something like a redlion datastation could bridge to ethernet, and they are pretty cheap
 
Another thought on this:
Can I just daisy chain them all to the office and create a panelview+6 project and add all the PLCs to the run time target. I could then make screens with the info I want for each PLC on the blue hose? the most distant one is maybe 150" from the office.

Thanks for giving me different ways to look at this.
 

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