OT Cage Clamp Terminals

MikeW

Member
Join Date
Feb 2004
Location
WI
Posts
265
I was initially going to post this with the current thread on Panel Design but though it would be better as a stand alone.

What's the opinion on Cage Clamps vs. Screw Terminals/ Screw Terminals & Ferrules? Something like these from AD.

I have been think of using them on my next job after there were 3 "loose wire" on my last job where they were either not fastened completely or were tightened on wire insulation. Talk about a troubleshooting nightmare with our new in-house "no live power probing" rule. They look more failsafe and only cost about 2X the normal screw types which is cheap compared to the labor to troubleshoot.

It seems that there should also be self stripping types so you don't have to strip the wires, are there and does anyone have experience with them? Preferred suppliers?

TIA,
Mike
 
Since switching to cage clamp terminals a few years ago, I have had zero problems (as in not a single loose wire or failed terminal out of thousands installed). I can't think of a single reason to choose screw terminals over cage clamp terminals. They really are that much better. The electricians like them too, because they are quicker to connect and easier on your hands (because you don't have to twist a tiny screw driver thousands of times a day).

I use Wago.


Kevin
 
Rather than use the WAGO style cage clamp terminals I prefer to use the Entrelec style IDC (Insulation Displacement Connector). You have the same advantages of vibration resistance but you eliminate having to strip the wire. I like the Entrelec better than the Phoenix because htey are UL rated for two wires in the same IDC connection, which simplifies adding jumpers in the field.

I confess, though, that our panel shop prefers to plain old screw terminals. They claim the difference in labor for IDC type isn't significant. I suspect they really just suffer from RTC syndrome (Resistance To Change).
 
I've used 10,000's of Wago blocks, and they are a good product. Panel wiring times are cut by 40% and wiring problems are -0-. Our inventory load was cut by 25%, mostly due to the simple jumpering system. You could probably get your salesman to do lunch/learn training for your assembly crew -- there is a learning curve, and that's a big jumpstart. I was paying about $.85/ea for basic blocks, compared to $1.25 for Phx screw clamps.

Of course there are different grades of screw blocks too. If you're paying less than $.40 per term (ie. Buchanan, AB 1492-F1, etc), you might just need to use a better style. The really cheap ones are cheap for a reason, and the real expense is in the labor and downtime.

I've heard some bad reports about IDC terminals, but I have no personal experience with them. Good luck!
 
We started using Widemuller IDC blocks this year and have drastically reduced our panel wiring time because of them. I'm not real familiar with other IDC blocks, but with the Widemuller blocks the wires are either locked in or not and its easy to visually check a panel for "loose" wires. So far we've had -0- loose IDC connections in the field and only a couple on the test stand (on panels built by boss's 10yr old daughter)...
 
:D Thanks for the prompt replies and info. I had searched on "Cage Clamp" prior to initially posting as I was not sure what to call them (IDC looks to be the name to search on.)

Will look at the Enterlec due to the two in one wire possibility.
 
We use the terminals from AD. My shop guys made a bit for a Yankee Screwdriver to fit the terminal screws. Things seem to go pretty quick. No complaints of tunnel-carple.. :D

Mike
 
I started using the WAGO style several months ago due to the loose wire problems. So far no problems. I still strip the wires and use bootlace style ferrules to avoid stray "hairs", also helps if you need to change wire config after install. Have also found if using bootlace crimps, Crimp them with the correct tool.
Removal/insertion is much faster when crouched in a panel fault finding.
 
A couple of things:

1) I believe current ratings are a little lower on IDC and tension (cage clamp) versus screw. (of the same size/width block). Also the cage clamp and screw allow a larger wire guage spread versus the IDC, like 22-12 for cage/screw versus 22-16 for IDC etc. This is important the first time you need somewhere to land that #12 wire you forgot about.

2) Areas were the temp fluctuates even as much as 30 degrees throughout the year will cause copper to expand and contract, which can lead to loose wires in screw type blocks. Espescially if it's a new panel, new wire has a tendancy to contract and then not expand the same amount after its first exposure to cold after being landed. That didn't copme out right, after you first land it on a screw terminal, install it and check all the terminals. If you shipped the panel during the winter, you'll find many loose wires. Dont use screw blocks in these instances.

3) WAGO used to have a patent on the method of cage clamp they used and it was felt they were the best (also my opinion) but it has since cleared and the others are modifying their blocks to take advantage of the things that made WAGO cage clamp style better. Just ask whoever your using if their cage clamp block is as good as WAGO and they will likely tell you it's the same or better for this reason.

4) Troubleshooting: This is a no brainer, when you want to remove a wire from a cage clamp block to seperate that fom the circuit your testing it's the obvious favorite. IDC and screw are not as easy to either get the wire in/out/ or left unchanged when your done troubleshooting.

5) IDC does make it quicker to assemble a panel but the same electricians/techs who make the panel for me complain if they find IDC's out in the field so I stopped trying them.

6) Lastly, I called each vendor of terminals and asked them for a sample strip, and got it. I can say for sure this is a must. Reason is, as you try them, you'll find a favorite (either you or your techs). I have broken many a block trying to tighten them, pulling on the wire after tightening them to see which holds the best, etc. Make sure you look at the screw if your buying screw type. A beefy screw will always work better, I could go on but when you get the samples, you'll get what I mean.
Good luck
 
Use whatever style you prefer, but people, please STOP using these ancient SquareD GK6 terminals!... mddr

[attachment]

I am tired of seeing brand new panels with rows of these clunky old terminals. In case anyone doesn't know, there ARE other places to buy terminal blocks besides Grainger... :rolleyes:

beerchug

-Eric

gk6.jpg
 
Insulation displacement

These work great, but I have yet to hear anything good about "self-stripping" or insulation-displacement (IDC) terminals.

I have my own bias against insulation displacement termnials. I tried them about 10 yrs ago at my previous job. The problems were not related to poor contact. As long as your wireman ALWAYS uses the proper tool to install, and as long as he NEVER tries to insert two wires of mismatched size into one block (better yet, never put two wires into one block).

Our problems stemmed from the insertion tool itself. We paid over $100 for a tool and the tip broke halfway through assembling the second panel. mddr I'd say we got less than 500 wires terminated. Checking back with Entrelec, they didn't offer (at that time), replacement tips. We would have had to buy another tool. :mad: So much for saving money!!! Needless to say, I returned all the my unused terminal blocks to the vendor for full credit (refused to pay a re-stocking fee).

I'm back to using Entrelec terminals today as our standard and am very satisfied with them. I did tell my vendor not to even mention IDC blocks, as it might end our friendship!

Aside from that, IDC makes for difficult servicing in the field.

End of Sermon

CB
 

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