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Old April 19th, 2018, 10:22 AM   #1
kamenges
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ACS355 Overcurrent Issue

I have two ACS355 drives (240V, 1HP) each connected to a Marathon Black Max 1HP motor. In both cases, very shortly after I start the drives immediately to 5 seconds) the drives will fault on overcurrent.

I initially had the drives set up to operate in vector speed mode. When this issue popped up I changed to scalar mode and the same thing happens. I disconnected the motor leads from the drives and started them in scalar mode and I still get an overcurrent fault, which seems like quite the trick. With the motors disconnected the current feedback value displayed on the drive never moves from zero but the drive faults on overcurrent. Both of them. Connected to different motors or not connected at all.

Any ideas? It almost has to be a set-up issue but I have no idea what would cause something like this. I have never seen such a thing before; at least not from two brand-spankin'-new drives.

Keith
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Old April 19th, 2018, 11:02 AM   #2
illibilli
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How is the environment it sounds like condensation in the motor, but I dont know this motor brand.

If the motors are causing this during their acceleration, try to look at parameter 3104, just be onsite and monitor them if you decide to test this
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Old April 19th, 2018, 11:06 AM   #3
OkiePC
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Could the VFD be damaged? With no load, that sure sounds like a shorted IGBT.

Could there be a need for line reactors? I once had a small Powerflex drive that would get a hardware overcurrent fault just sitting idle. Adding a line reactor cured it.

EDIT: I retract the above statement, I was getting Overvolts faults, not overcurrent
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Last edited by OkiePC; April 19th, 2018 at 11:10 AM.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 11:16 AM   #4
kamenges
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We are in the initial stages of machine test. I work for an OEM. From the standpoint of industrial sites, this environment is pristine. No dust or aerosols in the air. I am in the northern US. Humidity is still in he very low range for this time of year.

This is happening with two identical drives sitting right next to each other in an enclosure NOT CONNECTED TO ANY MOTORS; the output terminals are disconnected. This was done as part of the ABB manual troubleshooting path.

Both drives are brand new. While it is possible both drives are bad out of the box, generally speaking not even I have that bad of luck. That is why I THINK it is configuration but I can't think of any parameter that would cause something like this to happen.

Keith
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Old April 19th, 2018, 11:25 AM   #5
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Save your work, then set them back to defaults...switch to scalar mode, test again with no connected load.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 11:44 AM   #6
dmargineau
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Keith,

I'd say the ACS355 family is the poor cousin of the top of the line ACS800 ABB VFDs.

I have used them sparingly and only when on very tight budgets ; one critical issue I have experienced was the tendency of faulting on 'Overcurrent' especially when the load varied suddenly even when well within the limits; playing with the Accel/Decel settings mitigated some of the nuisance trips however, several times I had to 'size up' the drive.

I am not sure running the drives without an electrical load is valid troubleshooting, ABB recommended or not; you could damage the inverters.

I'd take a look at parameter 2606 (SWITCHING FREQ) and make sure it is set at 4kHz (Default).

Also, I would try setting parameter 2607 (SWITCHFREQ CTRL) to 'ON' as opposed to the Default 'ON LOAD'; this should give you the best performance with a 4 kHz carrier frequency; it seems that the on-board processor is not quite up to the task of switching the modulating signal in time for accommodating the mechanical load 'pulses'.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 12:02 PM   #7
NetNathan
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Is the motor data entered correctly in the setup parameter 99?
Are you using the standard profile?

I frequently move the switching frequency form 4khz to 8khz to get rid of motor "whine".


ABB Low Voltage Drives has tech support also....800-435-7365
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Old April 19th, 2018, 12:11 PM   #8
dmargineau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetNathan View Post
I frequently move the switching frequency form 4khz to 8khz to get rid of motor "whine".
That would derate I2N (Continuous RMS Current) to 90% of the 4 kHz I2N (Rated Continuous RMS Current).

Last edited by dmargineau; April 19th, 2018 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Poor spelling!
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Old April 19th, 2018, 12:19 PM   #9
NetNathan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmargineau View Post
That would derate I2N (Continuous RMS Current) to 90% of the 4 kHz I2N (Rated Continuous RMS Current).
In my systems, I use a 15HP ACS355 to run a 10HP motor and I run "current limit" mode, so the motor has a fixed max current. I set 2003 to max current of motor.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 12:25 PM   #10
dmargineau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetNathan View Post
In my systems, I use a 15HP ACS355 to run a 10HP motor and I run "current limit" mode, so the motor has a fixed max current. I set 2003 to max current of motor.
That sounds about right; I usually went 33% higher VFD rating than the driven motor(s).
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Old April 19th, 2018, 12:40 PM   #11
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Haven't seen one trip on Overcurrent with no motor attached, I have one on the bench for Modbus testing, I can try tomorrow.

What is your supply system? Anything strange going on there, weird earthing systems?

As others asked, have you gone through and entered all the Startup Data, I have seen some strange things when that was forgotten.

From the manual: are you using the STO terminals, a fast toggle there can cause an Overcurrent.

Might be a daft question but is it an Alarm or a Fault.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 12:51 PM   #12
NetNathan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmargineau View Post
That sounds about right; I usually went 33% higher VFD rating than the driven motor(s).
Actually just switched form ACS355 to the ACS380 (Love the Bluetooth compatibility)
We use some bigger ABB drives (ACS580 and ACS880) also...up to 200HP and the motors are special built with a 1.25 SF, so I am conditioned to get the next drive size up....or "Heavy Duty" not "Standard Duty".
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Old April 19th, 2018, 03:17 PM   #13
kamenges
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We have a winner!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by BryanG:

From the manual: are you using the STO terminals, a fast toggle there can cause an Overcurrent.
I remember seeing that in the manual and I checked the lines with a voltmeter and didn't see any kinds of blips. I guess I didn't appreciate what they meant by "fast".

I have the drive STO lines connected directly to a pair of outputs on an Allen-Bradley 440C-CR30 programmable safety relay. Those outputs are hard designed to use pulse testing on the outputs to verify the outputs aren't jumpered. This pulse duration is 50 microseconds. The off pulse time must be long enough for the drive to pick up as a loss of STO. I jumpered the drive STO lines and the issue disappeared.

I had always assumed that safety devices on the market today were designed to operate in the pulse test environment. It would appear that I need to be more careful in the future.

Keith
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Old April 19th, 2018, 03:29 PM   #14
OkiePC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenges View Post
We have a winner!!!



I remember seeing that in the manual and I checked the lines with a voltmeter and didn't see any kinds of blips. I guess I didn't appreciate what they meant by "fast".

I have the drive STO lines connected directly to a pair of outputs on an Allen-Bradley 440C-CR30 programmable safety relay. Those outputs are hard designed to use pulse testing on the outputs to verify the outputs aren't jumpered. This pulse duration is 50 microseconds. The off pulse time must be long enough for the drive to pick up as a loss of STO. I jumpered the drive STO lines and the issue disappeared.

I had always assumed that safety devices on the market today were designed to operate in the pulse test environment. It would appear that I need to be more careful in the future.

Keith
That is a good find...and relatively fast. Tell your boss you deserve a bonus and split it with BryanG
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Old April 19th, 2018, 04:15 PM   #15
dmargineau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenges View Post

I had always assumed that safety devices on the market today were designed to operate in the pulse test environment. It would appear that I need to be more careful in the future.

Keith
Keith,

The 440C-CR30 Safety Outputs are automatically configured for 'Pulse Test', however, since any STO VFD provision will act up when continuity fails (even for 50 microseconds), you could change the PT (Pulse Test) setting to non-pulsed (standard) type safety outputs; I don't believe the OSSD type would satisfy the STO requirements.

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http://literature.rockwellautomation...m001_-en-p.pdf
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