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Old January 10th, 2019, 11:13 AM   #1
rupej
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New ControlLogix 5580 MSG path?

I have to use a new L81 ControlLogix processor to MSG read a SLC5/05. I've done this before on the older series using an ENBT, but the new processor has an Ethernet port built-in, which I assume changes the path.

Does anyone know the new communication path to use in the MSG setup? I can't seem to find any documentation on it. The processor is in the first slot on the rack.

Is it something like:

1,S1,2,192.168.155.77

Thank you!
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Old January 10th, 2019, 12:04 PM   #2
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On a 5069 CompactLogix (same family as the 5580 ControlLogix products) the path has changed depending on how the controller is configured with regards to the Ethernet ports. However, that is with two ports. That said of the two ports, one is an Enterprise port (A1) and the other is a Device-level port (A2) and the path needs to indicate which of the two you are connected to. So instead of “1, S1, 2, xxx…..” it’s “1, S1, 3 (for A1) or 4 (for A2), xxx…”. I would try replacing the “2” with 3 or 4 (I’m guessing 4) and see if that works.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 12:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rupej View Post
I have to use a new L81 ControlLogix processor to MSG read a SLC5/05. I've done this before on the older series using an ENBT, but the new processor has an Ethernet port built-in, which I assume changes the path.

Does anyone know the new communication path to use in the MSG setup? I can't seem to find any documentation on it. The processor is in the first slot on the rack.

Is it something like:

1,S1,2,192.168.155.77

Thank you!
As the 5580 controller has an embedded Ethernet port, I don't think the Slot it is in matters for direct message (MSG) communications out this port, as you are not routing through the backplane to reach the controller. Likewise, you are not routing through the backplane to go out from the controller's Ethernet port to nodes on the network.

I actually, and surprisingly, cannot find any documentation which describes the MSG path to use to go out from the embedded Ethernet port to other nodes? Perhaps by modern standards they expect us to be able to select all nodes on the network via the I/O Configuration? But we know that won't be the case for some time to be, such as the example here.

What I do know is that to communicate with itself, the manual path to type is "THIS" and I have seen that referenced a few times over the last year or so. You can also browse to and select the controller itself in the I/O Configuration and whatever the user name of the controller is will be propagated to the Path field, but "THIS" will still be entered as the actual path.

However, to go directly out to the likes of an SLC 5/05 Ethernet port, which is not available to be added into the I/O Configuration, it is not abundantly clear what the exact path would be? As a test, I have added a 1769-L32E to the I/O configuration, which also has a "direct" Ethernet port, and then configured a MSG path to point to this port. All the browse selection does is add the path of the name of my L32E, which happens to be "CPX_L32E". This then creates the IP address in the MSG instruction's backing tag path as:

10.10.10.120

Which is the IP address I have assigned to the 1769-L32E.

However, if I go back to the MSG path configuration and simply enter:

10.10.10.120

It will fail to accept this as normally we are expected to enter a port/address pair for the MSG path, right? So if there is a port number required, it's probably going to be 2, or 3 or 4 or something, similar to the new 5380 CompactLogix controllers with Dual IP. 2 being the obvious port number to start with. The problem is though, that the MSG path will allow you to assign port numbers up to port 7 (max.) without checking if that port number is valid for the current I/O Configuration or even platform you are using. So yes, it will accept:

2, 10.10.10.120

But it will also accept:

7, 10.10.10.120

And I can't tell you which would be correct without having the hardware to actually test it with.

But, I'm holding out here for the suspense factor...

Back in the MSG instruction's backing tag, and under the path member I mentioned earlier, which is incidentally displayed in Hexadecimal, we can see the following full path:

$12$p10.10.10.120

I explained this syntax recently in another thread...

Path to Freedom...

...so I won't go all into that again here. But, from the above, I can tell you that Studio 5000 has assigned a preceding port number of "2" before the IP address. So this means that although the port number is not exposed to the user in the path field within the MSG instruction applet itself, it is viewable in Hex within the backing tag. So this means that the port/address pair is:

2, 10.10.10.120

Which was assigned when selecting the 1769-L32E.

This would align with the fact that the 5380 CompactLogix controllers start at port number 2 for Linear/DLR mode.

If I create other node types under the I/O Configuration and change the MSG path to them, they likewise automatically assign port 2.

So to be clear, you do not need any local backplane or slot routing within the MSG path. Only the port/address pair is required for these new 5x80 controllers. Also, if messaging to the embedded Ethernet ports on these newer controllers, you only need to add the IP address of the controller. The port is directly exposed to the network.

EDIT1: Sorry Firejo, just saw your post. Don't forget the port 2 option for the 5380 (5069) controllers.

EDIT2: Sorry rupej, I had meant to clearly post your required path that you would manually type in to reach the SLC 5/05:

2, 192.168.155.77

Regards,
George
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Last edited by Geospark; January 10th, 2019 at 12:53 PM.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 12:51 PM   #4
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Thanks guys. The path config has always been confusing, and the latest version of Studio 5000 doesn't even give examples in the help section like the older versions did.

I don't have the hardware to test ahead of time so when I get to the site, I'll start with "2, 192.168.x.x" and increment until hopefully it works.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 03:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
EDIT1: Sorry Firejo, just saw your post. Don't forget the port 2 option for the 5380 (5069) controllers.
Not completely sure what you mean. If you're saying I left the "2" out of the path, that was intentional (on a 5069).

https://rockwellautomation.custhelp....il/a_id/900835
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Old January 10th, 2019, 06:02 PM   #6
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You don't need to get complex with this; it really is pretty straightforward: KB 1066637.

There is only one Ethernet port and it is both logically and physically part of the CPU.

It's Port 2, so a dead-reckoning CIP Path to send a message to an SLC-5/05 would be "2, [IP address of SLC-5/05]".

Yes, the 5069 controllers are different, depending on the mode (ring vs. dual port).
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Old January 10th, 2019, 06:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firejo
On a 5069 CompactLogix...of the two ports, one is an Enterprise port (A1) and the other is a Device-level port (A2) and the path needs to indicate which of the two you are connected to. So instead of “1, S1, 2, xxx…..” it’s “1, S1, 3 (for A1) or 4 (for A2), xxx…”. I would try replacing the “2” with 3 or 4 (I’m guessing 4) and see if that works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark
...Don't forget the port 2 option for the 5380 (5069) controllers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firejo
Not completely sure what you mean...
Sorry if I wasn't clear...

You referenced the Dual-IP Mode configuration for the 5380 CompactLogix controllers, which of course allows two separate port configurations for controller communications segregation across its two Ethernet ports; hence each having its own port number: Enterprise (A1) = 3; Device-level (A2) = 4. Dual-IP is in fact the out-of-the-box EtherNet/IP Mode for these controllers, so it may be easy enough to think that this is how they will always work. What you were advising rupej to do was change from port "2" in their path to either "3" for Enterprise port or "4" for Device-level port. With "4" being your best guess I assume because it's for Device-level communications. That's all perfectly fine.

All I was prompting you of is the fact that aside from the default Dual-IP Mode, we can also configure the 5380 controllers embedded Ethernet ports for Linear/DLR Mode, which effectively makes it an embedded switch with both ports now using a single configuration i.e. same IP address. Using this Mode, the port number when defining paths is "2". So I was just reminding you that these controllers may be configured for either port "2", "3", or "4". With "2" being my best guess for the 5580 ControlLogix controllers based on the fact that my trials have shown that this is the port number that the software is automatically prepending to each path I define.

The technote you linked is one I've linked here on the Forum before. If you read just after the section which describes the port numbers to use in Dual-IP Mode (3, 4), you will see the following...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 900952 - CompactLogix 5380 Ethernet/IP Dual-IP and Linear mode change information

...If the controller operates in Linear/DLR mode, the path is 2, IP address...
You may have also missed that, along with what I was referring to, but hopefully what I meant is clearer for you now?

G.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 06:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Roach
You don't need to get complex with this; it really is pretty straightforward: KB 1066637.

There is only one Ethernet port and it is both logically and physically part of the CPU.

It's Port 2, so a dead-reckoning CIP Path to send a message to an SLC-5/05 would be "2, [IP address of SLC-5/05]".

Yes, the 5069 controllers are different, depending on the mode (ring vs. dual port).
Good find Ken. That is quite definitive and backs my findings. But I don't think I was being "complex" in doing so, if that's what you mean? Without any good references such as you've found, I was just being logical in finding a simple way to try and ascertain if or what port number these L8x controllers use. Because we're constantly finding that the L8x architecture is proving to be quite different to its predecessors in a few different ways, I was definitely open minded as to what it might throw up. But once it was "2" I can say that I wasn't really surprised.

My fear was that all our 5380 CompactLogix Dual-IP referencing might prove more confusing or distracting here for anyone reading who is not so familiar with them.

Again, well done on the technote.

P.s. looking at it more closely I know I've been in there before in the past but it was just updated last December. Probably to add the new controller references.

G.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 07:01 PM   #9
Ken Roach
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Quote:
it was just updated last December.
This used to irritate me a lot about the Knowledgebase; there would be "last edited" timestamps but no evidence about what the changes were, and sometimes it was just because the file had been timestamped when it was accessed by the machine-translation system.

I don't know if Rockwell keeps a revision history; they probably do because of how important it is during litigation.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 07:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
Sorry if I wasn't clear...

You referenced the Dual-IP Mode configuration for the 5380 CompactLogix controllers, which of course allows two separate port configurations for controller communications segregation across its two Ethernet ports; hence each having its own port number: Enterprise (A1) = 3; Device-level (A2) = 4. Dual-IP is in fact the out-of-the-box EtherNet/IP Mode for these controllers, so it may be easy enough to think that this is how they will always work. What you were advising rupej to do was change from port "2" in their path to either "3" for Enterprise port or "4" for Device-level port. With "4" being your best guess I assume because it's for Device-level communications. That's all perfectly fine.

All I was prompting you of is the fact that aside from the default Dual-IP Mode, we can also configure the 5380 controllers embedded Ethernet ports for Linear/DLR Mode, which effectively makes it an embedded switch with both ports now using a single configuration i.e. same IP address. Using this Mode, the port number when defining paths is "2". So I was just reminding you that these controllers may be configured for either port "2", "3", or "4". With "2" being my best guess for the 5580 ControlLogix controllers based on the fact that my trials have shown that this is the port number that the software is automatically prepending to each path I define.

The technote you linked is one I've linked here on the Forum before. If you read just after the section which describes the port numbers to use in Dual-IP Mode (3, 4), you will see the following...



You may have also missed that, along with what I was referring to, but hopefully what I meant is clearer for you now?

G.
I wasn't sure if the ControlLogix (5580) behaved the same way as the CompactLogix did but I figured it's a simple enough change that he could see if that fixed it in just a few minutes. I am aware of the two different modes but I didn't want to complicate it any more than it had to be so again, just figured try 3 and 4 and if(when) it didn't work, he'd know.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 07:20 PM   #11
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You've reminded me that I'm subscribed to receive regular emails for all updated Answer notifications. I was off Tuesday & Wednesday this week and when I returned to the office this morning the darn radiator had sprung a leak in my absence! Water to the high Heavens! So I spent most of today emptying out the office and mopping it out. At least the concrete floor got a badly needed clean and some surplus paraphernalia finally made it to the bin.

Anyway, I didn't get time to catch up on all my mail so I'll have a look now in the morning and see when did I last receive an updated list of technotes. I'm sure there's one or two of them I've not yet read? That one can't have been too long ago?

G.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 07:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firejo View Post
I wasn't sure if the ControlLogix (5580) behaved the same way as the CompactLogix did but I figured it's a simple enough change that he could see if that fixed it in just a few minutes. I am aware of the two different modes but I didn't want to complicate it any more than it had to be so again, just figured try 3 and 4 and if(when) it didn't work, he'd know.
Eh, OK.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 07:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Roach View Post
You don't need to get complex with this; it really is pretty straightforward: KB 1066637.

There is only one Ethernet port and it is both logically and physically part of the CPU.

It's Port 2, so a dead-reckoning CIP Path to send a message to an SLC-5/05 would be "2, [IP address of SLC-5/05]".

Yes, the 5069 controllers are different, depending on the mode (ring vs. dual port).
After not finding anything online I was thinking that this was probably the case. What suprised me was the help file in Studio 5000 makes no mention of it at all (for either type of processor) at least not that I could find. It still provides information on the 1769 coms path but not the 5069 impling that its the same. To be fair, I'm working with v30 so maybe the more up to date versions have it. Ironically enough I had to figure this out with a 5069 yesterday (Wednesday) to run some tests and when I looked for info then (on the 5069 not the 5580) I found it on the first try.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 07:31 PM   #14
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I used Studio 5000 v31 for my earlier trials and had also checked the Help. There was no reference to the MSG Path configuration with regard to which port numbers to use. They keep reminding us in various places how we can simply add nodes into the I/O Configuration and browse to them to conveniently define the path for ourselves. But they seem to not realize the importance of clearly documenting the manual paths required for users such as our OP here and any of us that just want or need to know. Placing it obscurely in, so far, one technote article is not exactly "talking to the masses".
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Old January 10th, 2019, 07:41 PM   #15
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Thanks a bunch, folks! 2, xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx it is!

Yes, Rockwell really needs to improve their documentation... particularly the help file that is part of Studio 5000.
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