How are you using RSView SE?

I would like to hear about your RSView SE installations. I really would like to know how the average facility is using this product, so that I can weigh our experiences with the product against what is “typical.”

We currently have CPR 6 (RSView SE version 3.2) installed. In our installation we are using the redundant data server and redundant HMI server capabilities (note: data and HMI services are hosted on the same server). The complete system will consist of two separate projects, each with multiple areas and several dozen PLCs. The PLCs are a mix of ControlLogix and some CompactLogix. We have a large tag database, in some cases it is pushing the 40,000 tags per HMI database limit.

I don’t think our implementation is much different from what any factory (car maker, brewery, etc.) or large process facility (petrochem) might encounter. How do your installations compare? Which features are you using:

1. What Version?
2. Data server redundancy
3. HMI server redundancy
4. HMI tag database (versus direct reference tags)
5. Alarm services
6. How many PLCs? What type(s)?
7. RSLinx Enterprise or RSLinx Classic? Other OPC server?
8. Multiple HMI servers? Did you use areas or separate projects?

I’m hoping that there is someone reading with whom I can compare notes. But, if the answer to my question is “we’re not really using any of that,” it is an equally acceptable answer.

AK

I do not work in the department that has SE implemented. I do get calls to assist sometimes. I wish I had more details to give you.

We are at CPR 7
Yes, on data and HMI server redundancy.
Yes, we use HMI tags.
Yes, on alarm services.
We are connected to about a dozen L63's, 4 PLC-5's, and a couple of SLC's.(all on ethernet)
We are using linx classic.
Not sure but I think we are using areas.

If I get a chance I will look it over a lot closer. This is phase one of a large project, it will be several times this size in a couple of years I think.

General feeling I have is it was fairly unstable and has caused a lot of downtime for us. It is a work in progress and is here to stay though. It has got alot better in recent months. LOTS of bugs and problems.

I would have prefered several RSView32's and even some Panelview plus's myself.

Even with redundant servers we have had several crashes.

RSL

It sounds like from the response (or lack of responses) no one is using RS View SE. Or are you pioneering its use in a rather large application.

It seems you have two choices.
1.) Run.
2.) Stay and fight.



Good luck with your project.

OK, I've engineered 4 large SE deployments in Thailand, Malaysia, Brazil and Denmark and will try and give you some useful feedback!

What Version?
From 3.1 to 3.4. Later versions were far less painful in terms of bugginess.

Data server redundancy
Never required. Instead we used regular desktop PCs with RAID hard drives and restrictive operating system access, and trained the operators to regularly back up their production data. Keeping an imaged drive separate from the production machine ready to drop in in case of disaster is another simple, cheap insurance scheme.

HMI server redundancy
Again, no compelling value advantages found so this was not used. Again, it's easy to train mantainers to keep plenty of backsups in case of disaster.

HMI tag database (versus direct reference tags)
3 of those projects were done using AB SLC controllers, and tags can't be directly browsed. This required extensive messing around exporting tags from the controller and importing them into the SE project in some sort of sensible structure.

Alarm services
We used the SE built in alarms capability and have had no real problems with it. Much nicer than the ME alarms object for certain!

How many PLCs? What type(s)?
Typically from 5 to 1 PLCs, generally SLC but also 1 ControlLogix.

RSLinx Enterprise or RSLinx Classic? Other OPC server?
RSLinx Enterprise.

Multiple HMI servers? Did you use areas or separate projects?
I only had use for a single area in my projects, and I'd guess that creating multiple areas would only be useful for widely distributed systems.

Hope that helps...

What: RSView SE distributed, 5 clients. doing HMI for 2x4Mw steam turbines and 2x timber waste boilers

What Version? was CPR6 had mega bugs and multiple patches. CPR7'd it and its way better but still has some aspects that die regularly. Nothing that cant be resolved with a restart.

Data server redundancy
No. Have RAID 5 array and ghosted image to rebuild.

HMI server redundancy
No

HMI tag database (versus direct reference tags)
only for stuff that is an alarm, or needs to be scaled in the hmi
the rest is direct reference. derived tags seem much faster than hmi tags just out of interest

Alarm services using rsview alarming
How many PLCs? What type(s)? 1xCLX5555, 3xtoshiba ex-somethings using software toolbox opc server-3xrs485, 2xSLC504 on 1756/RIO/DH+ through ethernet

RSLinx Enterprise or RSLinx Classic? Other OPC server?
all of the above

Multiple HMI servers?
Did you use areas or separate projects?
single hmi server, single area, 5 clients and 2x panelview plus's

comments:
works great when its working, otherwise its a tempremental B!tch.
quick and easy to develop, but man its caused me some grief to the point i have the old unix hmi sitting there to plug in for "When" it falls over. RSview32 was never like this.

AndrewB said:

comments:
works great when its working, otherwise its a tempremental B!tch.
quick and easy to develop, but man its caused me some grief to the point i have the old unix hmi sitting there to plug in for "When" it falls over. RSview32 was never like this.

Click to expand...

This is very true. The various versions of SE I have worked with have all had endless bugs, some absolutely infuriating. I particularly recall spending 3 days in Thailand trying everything under the sun trying to get my clients talking to my HMI server again (after working for a month previous). Not happy, especially when I was trying to wind up commissioning in a big hurry!

if i was doing a project for a customer (which i wont as i work for a company) and my name was at stake I would be using RSview32.

I did do a medium scale HMI install to 24 old steam timber drying kilns (replaced chart recorders).
Choose to use RSview32 and a 4 port Black Box Servshare to split between 4 LCDs,mouse,keyboard at up to 500m away down cat-5

In my experiance:

Advantages: Never crashed yet, dont need server 03 & a monster computer. Only 1 pc to behave like a windows pc only can.

Disadvantages: all screens do the same thing. development is slower due to having to make tags. Need good/advanced MSwindows background

All that said, RSview SE is an excellent concept, just needs some bugs sorted.

We have an RSView SE license and an RSView SE Station run time license. We were looking at migrating from RSView32. But after futzing around with it and it peculiarities for a while we decided to stick with RSView32. Now the SE Station license sits in its box and it is used to fill an empty space in a bookcase and keep the other books standing up straight. The RSView SE is installed but used mostly for panel view programming.

AKreel- maybe you could give us a better idea of your application. Provide response using your questions.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I hope to get more. These responses are confirming that I'm not crazy. We really are beta testing the software.

AndrewB said:

CPR7'd it and its way better but still has some aspects that die regularly. Nothing that cant be resolved with a restart.

Click to expand...

Restart a distributed system? Two plants, 14 miles apart? Without Remote Desktop our software team would be getting one heck of a workout, I can tell you! This is the first sign that the code jockeys who wrote the software haven't seen it in use.

AndrewB said:

RSLinx Enterprise or RSLinx Classic? Other OPC server?

Click to expand...

AndrewB said:

all of the above

Click to expand...

Any preference? Comments?
We know that RSLinx Classic is a bad bet.

AndrewB said:

works great when its working, otherwise its a tempremental B!tch.

Click to expand...

AndrewB said:

quick and easy to develop, but man its caused me some grief to the point i have the old unix hmi sitting there to plug in for "When" it falls over. RSview32 was never like this.

Click to expand...

Amen.

We just installed SE CPR 7 on a system using redundant data servers and redundant HMI servers. Initially it wouldn't run for more than a few days without locking up. After a few patches we got it to run about a week between lockups. We now have installed maybe 4 or 5 patches and that got us to CPR7+, and the system has been stable for about a month now.

It was pretty rough there for 3 or 4 months and we were beginning to consider ripping the HMI system out and replacing it with RSView32 when the last patch seemed to fix quite a few things. I highly suggest bringing the system up to the CPR7+ level.

Does anyone have a consolidated list of all the patches available for SE 4.0?

Here's a link to the most recently updated patch list (as of 5/2). This also includes a link to the SE Patch Validator.


Rick

We are working on a large system running CPR 6 (RSView SE 3.2). We have the following equipment:
6 pairs of redundant Data/HMI Servers.
All tags used at the HMI are in the HMI Database.
~70 PLCs (mostly ControlLogix).
Using RSLinx Enterprise.

Although we have anomalies on the system where the HMI Servers just flat out crash (usually provoked by performing some type of edit), our real gripe is with the alarm server. The alarm server can take up to 20 minutes to calculate alarm animations and functions. On occasion we have witnessed "hours" or "never" finishing these calcs. We are fully patched up (according to the patch validator), however, I know that Rockwell puts out Hotfixes that are not always considered patches, so I can't say for certain.

Bump

I wanted to revisit this thread because some of our newest members seem to be using RSViewSE.