Door Safety Switch, Should it be called NO or NC?

theColonel26

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So given this Omron D4NS-9BF. The Manufacturer calls this a DPST-NC. The contacts are closed when the door is closed. But to me it seems like this should be called a NO. Since when the door is closed it is being acted on by an outside force, which would close the contacts. When the door is open, no outside force is being put on it so the contacts are open. So open is it's default state, not closed. IMO.


Thoughts on this?
 
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Door "SAFETY" switch... in my experience, when wiring a device for safety purposes you want to wire for fail safe. What feedback do you want if someone cuts the wires between the switch and the PLC? If its wired NO when the door is closed, i could come along and cut the wires (thus leaving the circuit still open) then physically open the door and no one would ever know i did it. You would want positive feedback that the door is closed and the circuit is intact if the door is intended to be closed for some safety reason.

my 2 cents
 
So given this Omron D4NS-9BF. The Manufacturer calls this a DPST-NC. Rhe contacts are closed when the door is closed. But to me it seems like this should be called a NO. Since when the door is closed it is being acted on by an outside force, which would close the contacts. When the door is open, no outside force is being put on it so the contacts are open. So open is it's default state, not closed. IMO.


Thoughts on this?
http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/1465/lineup.html
http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/1465/lineup.html

I have noticed this as well with safety devices specifically. It helps to think of what the contacts are when in the safe state. So when the door is closed and everything is safe the contacts are NC.
 
Door "SAFETY" switch... in my experience, when wiring a device for safety purposes you want to wire for fail safe. What feedback do you want if someone cuts the wires between the switch and the PLC? If its wired NO when the door is closed, i could come along and cut the wires (thus leaving the circuit still open) then physically open the door and no one would ever know i did it. You would want positive feedback that the door is closed and the circuit is intact if the door is intended to be closed for some safety reason.

my 2 cents
I don't think you read my OP.


As I stated, the signal is on when the door is closed I am talking about what to CALL the contacts of door switch. I think it makes more sense to call them normally open, rather than normally closed.
 
I have noticed this as well with safety devices specifically. It helps to think of what the contacts are when in the safe state. So when the door is closed and everything is safe the contacts are NC.
hmmm o_O I guess so. Is there an industry standard for this or does it depend on manufacturer?
 
In the olden days, we called that type of switch NOHC (Normally open, held closed) and drew it like:
15-4.jpg
 
I think, since this is a safety device, the word "normal" is taken to mean "in the safe state", so calling a safety switch normally closed would mean you get continuity through it when in the safe state.
 
I agree with the wiring N.O. , not sure if that is just Normally Open or Normally Open held closed I would also do a dual loop on all safety devices.
 
If this is a magnetic switch, then the normal state would be the state when the two pieces are together (ie. door closed).

As for naming, instead of NC or NO you could say closed.

IE: DOOR1_STATUS_CLOSED .
 
This is one of my biggest pet hates*. When an electrical component is described as "Normally x", this should always describe the off, de-energised, unactuated, (usually) out-of-the-box state of the contact. That's how electrical devices have always been. It's how they're (supposed to be) drawn. If it's a pushbutton, you draw it and describe the state when the pushbutton is not pressed. If it's a limit switch, you draw it and describe the state when the limti switch is free to spring to whichever is its "neutral" position and it's not actuated by any other object. If it's a pressure switch, you describe the state when no pressure is applied to the switch (or more accurately, when atmospheric pressure is applied to the switch). If it's a tongue-and-groove door switch, it's the state when the switch is not actuated by the tongue. If it's a coded magnet switch, it's the state when the switch not actuated by its coded partner.

What I think happened somewhere along the way is that someone who knew just enough about 'lectrical stuff to be dangerous, came along and claimed that "all safety devices must be failsafe" (which is true) and "failsafe means normally closed" (which is total BS). And thus, proclaimed that all guard switches are normally closed. Unfortunately, it stuck. So now, "normally open" and "normally closed" are almost completely meaningless because they threw away the definition of "normally" in pursuit of an incorrect idea (normally closed is failsafe).

When I draw something, I draw it in the non-actuated, de-energised, out-of-the-box state. Always. I will fight anyone who says that my guard switch has normally closed contacts. It ******* does not.

Anyway, I better get off my soapbox before I burst a blood vessel.

/rant


*(if you really want to see me get worked up about normally closed and safety, ask me why safety contactors come with so many normally closed auxiliaries)
 
If it's a tongue-and-groove door switch, it's the state when the switch is not actuated by the tongue.

I'm with you on on everything except this. If you have safety doors on your machine, do you normally run with them open?

All that aside, following however the mfg as it in their manuals is the best bet to avoid confusion.
 

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