Iiot

DF1 · Jun 20, 2018

Hello,

Can someone please provide a difference between a Standard SCADA control system (Sensors/Controllers/SCADA Servers...) and an IIOT based SCADA control system.

What is the added value of having IOT sensors or controllers within the plant only ?

I seem to notice that the system architectures are the same with only one difference in the IIOT based SCADA system which communicate using the internet.

A clear explanation would be much appreciated.

Thank you

Maxkling · Jun 20, 2018

Usually, not specifically, because you didn’t name any specific products, IoT devices pass data through the internet to cloud based storage. This is usually cheaper for the end user as they don’t require on site servers to handle the data. It’s also convenient as the data can usually be accessed anywhere that has an internet connection.

Now the obvious problem, you are not fully in control of your data.

AustralIan · Jun 20, 2018

One is a marketing term from the '90s, one is a marketing term from the '10s.

damica1 · Jun 20, 2018

This is a good read that helps explain the difference.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/4-key-differences-between-scada-industrial-iot-kudzai-manditereza/

Tom Jenkins · Jun 20, 2018

australian said:
one is a marketing term from the '90s, one is a marketing term from the '10s.

+1

diat150 · Jun 20, 2018

DF1 said:
Hello,

Can someone please provide a difference between a Standard SCADA control system (Sensors/Controllers/SCADA Servers...) and an IIOT based SCADA control system.

What is the added value of having IOT sensors or controllers within the plant only ?

I seem to notice that the system architectures are the same with only one difference in the IIOT based SCADA system which communicate using the internet.

A clear explanation would be much appreciated.

Thank you

you dont necessarily need to go over the internet to use IIOT.

My definition of IIOT is having "smart" devices that push "useful" data instead of what we typically do now, which is poll from a central server on a set time interval. This may be a sensor that has a IIOT protocol built in or an edge gateway device that has many protocols and acts as a polling server locally to the devices and then passes the "useful" data on to the scada system.

IMHO, this technology may be many years too late. bandwidth and storage is cheaper than ever. I do like the report by exception but you have to invest alot to use IIOT so is it really worth it when it may take many years to see a return on the investment? also, I have reservations about storing a crapload of "useful" data that may not even be useful, or may never even be used. do you really need to see the same analog value jumping around every few lbs? maybe, maybe not. I guess it really depends on your infrastructure and devices and should be a collaborative decision between users, managers, engineers, and system integrators on if this technology would truly be useful to your organization.

cardosocea · Jun 21, 2018

diat150 said:
I do like the report by exception but you have to invest alot to use IIOT so is it really worth it when it may take many years to see a return on the investment? also, I have reservations about storing a crapload of "useful" data that may not even be useful, or may never even be used. do you really need to see the same analog value jumping around every few lbs? maybe, maybe not. I guess it really depends on your infrastructure and devices and should be a collaborative decision between users, managers, engineers, and system integrators on if this technology would truly be useful to your organization.

The problem with the IIOT in my opinion is that none of the vendors actually show something new other than "it's in the cloud".

All data is useless if you do nothing with it. It's the understanding of what to get out of this data that is the real gain... not just having it.

LoganB · Jun 21, 2018

It's a fancy way of sharing your plant's metrics with China.

thingstodo · Jun 21, 2018

diat150 said:
you dont necessarily need to go over the internet to use IIOT.

My definition of IIOT is having "smart" devices that push "useful" data instead of what we typically do now, which is poll from a central server on a set time interval. This may be a sensor that has a IIOT protocol built in or an edge gateway device that has many protocols and acts as a polling server locally to the devices and then passes the "useful" data on to the scada system.

IMHO, this technology may be many years too late. bandwidth and storage is cheaper than ever. I do like the report by exception but you have to invest alot to use IIOT so is it really worth it when it may take many years to see a return on the investment? also, I have reservations about storing a crapload of "useful" data that may not even be useful, or may never even be used. do you really need to see the same analog value jumping around every few lbs? maybe, maybe not. I guess it really depends on your infrastructure and devices and should be a collaborative decision between users, managers, engineers, and system integrators on if this technology would truly be useful to your organization.

I am fine with storing a bunch of data just in case I need to go back and trouble-shoot. Or if someone needs to mine the data for a correlation in the data that is not very obvious.

What I have issues with is the connections. Our IT setup is control network for PLCs, separate network for DCS/Scada with 2 tie points to the control domain ... then a firewall, a DMZ, and our admin area. Add another firewall to get to our head office. And another DMZ. Then you are at head office admin. Add another firewall and another DMZ to get to 'the internet' and 'the cloud'.

Port configurations, firewall configurations, intrusion detection software that sees control data as an attack of some sort .. the price of IIOT is supposed to be low so that you can put everything on the network and migrate ALL of the data to the cloud. The price of setting up and maintaining the network to allow for this is too high for me to justify. And the salespeople promise all of this integration .. without being able to show me an example, or quote a package that does it.

It triggers my BS meter big time. I may not be from Missouri, but you need to SHOW ME

diat150 · Jun 21, 2018

well you can push the data to the cloud but you really dont need to unless you want to. Hosting large amounts of data in the cloud is very expensive.

Iiot

DF1

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Maxkling

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AustralIan

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damica1

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Tom Jenkins

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diat150

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cardosocea

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LoganB

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thingstodo

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diat150

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