Parameter file is working but I can't see it in FTView

Walks

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I was given a runtime file that I restored so I could open it in FTview and then I downloaded it to a test PLC/HMI along with the corresponding code. The FTview program uses at least 1 parameter file for a data history table. However, there are no parameter files listed in the FTview controller organizer and somehow the code on the PLC still works. i.e. the data is updated and displayed from the invisible parameter list.

I'm unable to troubleshoot the problem we are having if i can't see the parameter file in FTview. I've asked a much more experienced co-worker and even he was confused.

Any help is appreciated!
 
I was given a runtime file that I restored so I could open it in FTview and then I downloaded it to a test PLC/HMI along with the corresponding code. The FTview program uses at least 1 parameter file for a data history table. However, there are no parameter files listed in the FTview controller organizer and somehow the code on the PLC still works. i.e. the data is updated and displayed from the invisible parameter list.

I'm unable to troubleshoot the problem we are having if i can't see the parameter file in FTview. I've asked a much more experienced co-worker and even he was confused.

Any help is appreciated!
I am a bit confused, over the parameter file? what is this?
 
There is probably a parameter list used on the control instead of a file. Look on the control itself. Parameters can be passed to #1,#1...#1 automatically from the config dialog.
 
There is probably a parameter list used on the control instead of a file. Look on the control itself. Parameters can be passed to #1,#1...#1 automatically from the config dialog.

Oh right, if you copy in the file into directory it probably won’t show in the organizer but should still work
 
BruceJW said:
I am a bit confused, over the parameter file? what is this?

Geoff White said:
There is probably a parameter list used on the control instead of a file...

BruceJW said:
Oh right, if you copy in the file into directory it probably won’t show in the organizer but should still work

Hi Bruce,

It reads like you're still not quite sure of the concept Geoff has proposed that is likely used here?

Just a little explanation...

In FactoryTalk View Studio - A "Parameter File" is created separately within the application under Graphics>Parameters and then the Parameter File tags may be referenced by Display/object tag placeholders.

You seem to be familiar with this concept?

In FactoryTalk View Studio - A "Parameter List" is created within the properties of the Display/objects themselves. The tag placeholders for the Display/object then reference the assigned Parameter List tags.

You don't seem to be familiar with this concept?

Rockwell said:
Parameter lists and parameter files work in the same way, replacing tag placeholders with actual tags at run time. The difference between them is that parameter files are created as separate files and are referenced by the graphic objects and displays that use them, while parameter lists are created with the object properties and remain with the displays and objects. If you copy displays that use parameter files from one application to another, you must also copy the associated parameter files. If you copy displays that use parameter lists, the lists are copied with the displays and their objects.

Parameter Files are Global and may be referenced by more than one Display/object and their tag placeholders.

Parameter Lists are Local or embedded within the object and are only referenced by the Display/object tag placeholders. To view a Parameter List for an object you must open the Properties for the object. Here on one of the tabs (it varies) you would see Parameter List selected (radio button) and beside it a text field with at least one tagname entered. For multiple tags, if you click on the text and scroll right you will see all of the selected tags for the List, each separated by a comma (,). An object assigned Parameter List is only accessible/editable here within the object properties.

I'll leave it there...

Walks said:
Parameter file is working but I can't see it in FTView
I was given a runtime file that I restored so I could open it in FTview and then I downloaded it to a test PLC/HMI along with the corresponding code. The FTview program uses at least 1 parameter file for a data history table. However, there are no parameter files listed in the FTview controller organizer and somehow the code on the PLC still works. i.e. the data is updated and displayed from the invisible parameter list.

I'm unable to troubleshoot the problem we are having if i can't see the parameter file in FTview. I've asked a much more experienced co-worker and even he was confused...

Hi Walks,

You too might also be unaware of the Parameter List concept, even though you inadvertently referred to a "parameter list" at one stage there?

Hopefully Geoff has steered you in the right direction here.

Regards,
George
 
[SOLVED]

Thank you all for the help, I got it all figured out.

I was not selecting the correct object to see the parameter files. The global object in question was a list of data with a date, shift number and a counter for how many products are scanned, each of which has their own parameter. The option to view the global parameter list was not showing because I was selecting the individual string displays instead of right clicking the ENTIRE global object.

Is there any benefit to doing it this way as opposed to using a parameter file? I feel like using a parameter file instead of a parameter list is much easier. With a parameter file, I can copy paste all the text and it is easily seen in the program. With parameter lists you have to copy paste each individual tag/parameter.
 
Terminology...file or list?...

Walks said:
[SOLVED]

Thank you all for the help, I got it all figured out.

I was not selecting the correct object to see the parameter files. The global object in question was a list of data with a date, shift number and a counter for how many products are scanned, each of which has their own parameter. The option to view the global parameter list was not showing because I was selecting the individual string displays instead of right clicking the ENTIRE global object...

Firstly, I'm glad you got sorted.

Secondly, careful, the right terminology is vital here in not creating confusion...

I think you meant "Parameter Lists" there? It's just when we're reading your findings it's the first mention of what you found regarding parameters and leads us at first to believe there actually was a Parameter File(s). Whereas you actually go on to explain how you had to select a Global Object to view the parameter list. So there should be no mention of a parameter "file" here unless you are asking specifically about them...

Walks said:
...Is there any benefit to doing it this way as opposed to using a parameter file? I feel like using a parameter file instead of a parameter list is much easier. With a parameter file, I can copy paste all the text and it is easily seen in the program. With parameter lists you have to copy paste each individual tag/parameter.

Once more...

Geospark said:
...
Rockwell said:
Parameter lists and parameter files work in the same way, replacing tag placeholders with actual tags at run time. The difference between them is that parameter files are created as separate files and are referenced by the graphic objects and displays that use them, while parameter lists are created with the object properties and remain with the displays and objects. If you copy displays that use parameter files from one application to another, you must also copy the associated parameter files. If you copy displays that use parameter lists, the lists are copied with the displays and their objects.

Parameter Files are Global and may be referenced by more than one Display/object and their tag placeholders.

Parameter Lists are Local or embedded within the object and are only referenced by the Display/object tag placeholders...

Do you understand what I had posted above? This is the main difference between these two methods of referencing tags via placeholders.

To expand...

Generally, you would use Parameters Files where you want to reference the tags in the File at the Global level i.e. from more than one Display/object within the application. This is why a Parameter File is created as a seperate component within the application and is accessible under the Parameters folder. Any Display/object within the application that supports Parameters can then reference the Parameter File. If your application requires many Parameter tag placeholder references then using one or several Parameter Files is recommended (up to 600 Parameter Files on newer terminals). The Parameter File method is also much easier to add/edit/organise many parameter references in a larger text editor style.

Parameter Files can grow quite large. If a user decides to create one Parameter File for all references in a larger application then the file can be tens of megabytes in size. This is important to consider as at runtime, for each display that is opened, and referencing the single Parameter File, the application will load all Parameter references into RAM, regardless if only a select few references within the file are actually required for that Display. This can have a detrimental effect on the CPU utilization at runtime i.e. slower loading of Display/object data.

Did-you-know? - Parameters Files are very similar to text files and can be easily copied between applications. However, they are not standard text files and must be created and edited within an application in order to work correctly. This is because the software adds hidden information not transparent to the user.

Although intended more for Global use, you can still use the Parameter File method where each reference in a single file is only used once on one Display/object, or individual Parameter Files are created for each Display/object in the application. I'm sure there are lots of users that always default to the Parameter File method, regardless of whether they need Global references or not. The transparency and ease of the text editor being probably one of the top reasons for choosing the Parameter File method.

Opposite to Global Parameter Files, Parameter Lists are designed more as an individual or Local object oriented method. This feature was added at v5.10. For objects that support Parameters, the Parameter List is created by typing or selecting the tag references directly within the object's properties in the Parameter List field. These references will only reside there within the object properties and nothing is created for these references under the Parameters folder. While you can add a considerable amount of tag references into the Parameter List field, it is not really designed for creating large lists of references like you would in a Parameter File. Its purpose is more for creating the references required for just that particular object and so this usually limits the Parameter List to a select few, depending on the object in question and however many of its features you want to use tag placeholder references with.

On the downside, Parameter Lists are not as transparent to a user when investigating or trying to modify an existing application, as you have come to realize here. Even when found, and there are quite a few references in the Parameter List field, you cannot view them all at once in an actual list format. As each tag reference is added to the text field, seperated by ";", you can only place the cursor focus within the text field and scroll left and right through the list to view the tags. Not their best feature, but certainly not their worst.

Further, you do not have to copy/paste tag references for Parameter Lists. The list is embedded in the Display/object. If you copy the entire Display or just the object, the embedded list will automatically be copied as well. Whereas for Parameter Files, copying/pasting a Display/object will only copy the reference to the Parameter File name. You must separately copy/paste the actual Parameter Files to transfer the actual references.

There are further aspects to using Parameters, such as passing forward or nesting, but that's for another day.

Regards,
George
 
Last edited:

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