How can all you AB guys stand it?

elevmike

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Feb 2004
Location
Detroit, MI
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Eric Nelson led me to the Pico controllers from AB. So I downloaded the PicoSoft and started to play. I also download the manual and browsed some. I thhought that this might be another weapon to add to the arsnal so I went to get pricing info.

I 1'st went shopping on ABs website, but the pricing was at list and that's not acceptable; so I used the site to locate a local distributer (hard to find) and it listed two.

I called the first distributer, and the sales lady thought I was talking about Drives! After a few minutes she put me through to tech support, and he faxed me a LIST price list. (No mutiplyer!).

So I called the other distributer and asked the same question. He told me I could get prices from the AB website. I told him I was looking for a good multiplyer. He told me that they dont give out that information, and he gets the prices from the AB website. I asked him how they priced stuff. He told me I needed to give him a part number and he will "quote" me on that part. I told him I wanted pricing on the whole line. He told me to give him a part number on each part in the line and he will quote me on each part. I told him to have a great day. He said thanks.

Now I know why I shop Here! (y)

How do you AB guys do it??? banghead Please tell me what's wrong with me? I mean I shower every day! So what gives??? :confused:
 
Like any organization with a distribution network, the distribution is only as good as the local distributor. It sounds like your local guys are kicking you square in the groin, which does really suck by the way. And once you get to that level it's all about relationships.
Our local AB distributor is about 1 mile from where I work. Within a 1/2 hour of a call to them I could be back here with one of most of the devices they stock to do some evaluation. This with nothing more than a signature on a sign-out sheet. If I run into a real problem that I can't solve, a call will get someone at my facility to help me out within about an hour. Granted, we're close. But I suspect you would be hardpressed to get that kind of response out of the guys in Atlanta regardless of how friendly they are.
Now, in the great tradition of industrial socialism in this country, everyone who buys a Rockwell parts helps pay for that guy to come over here and help me out, just like I pay for the same service for other people.
(Why is Rockwell stuff so expensive? See above.)
However, it is ultimately about relationships. Sounds like you have a much better Georgia connection than a Detroit area connection. Given that you probably should stick with Atlanta.

Keith
 
Allen Bradley makes it a policy to only provide list price, if that. Every distributor has the ability to give you a multiplier for these list prices, but until I established a relationship with a distributor I got the same run around you did Mike. Even now I can't get "real" price lists on most items - just PLC and HMI stuff, with printed list prices and a multiplier for them. That is Allen Bradley's prerogative.

Of course, until I got the price list, it made it hard for me to purchase A-B stuff and establish a relationship with my A-B distributor - a bit of a Catch 22, isn't it!

Keith, you said "But I suspect you would be hardpressed to get that kind of response out of the guys in Atlanta regardless of how friendly they are."

True, but I don't really want a personal visit from anybody - I want information, and my experience is that I can get it just as fast by phone contact with AutomationDirect.com tech support as I can from my local A-B distributor (who happens to be very good). I generally get faster and better support from AutomationDirect than I do from A-B corporate in those cases where my local guy isn't available or able to help.

And, because their documentation is much more clearly written and better organized, I don't need to contact AutomationDirect as often!

I must also add in fairness that A-B has gotten much much better over the last year or so, and I think they may finally be "getting it".
 
Keith is right Mike. It depends on your local distributor. I almost quit using my local distributor and started buying from another. Fortunately, the hell-raisin' I did to the local folks got thru to them and now everybody's happy. Maybe there is a plan "B" you can get better response from.

My only problem now is with the Omron folks.
 
I have to work with them all since I am on the repair end more than the install but I will give AD (y) when it comes to shipping what you order. I have rarely made an order that I didnt recieve in 2 days, most next day.

I also agree that AB is working more on their relationship/support/training issues. They are making a stronger effort to be involved with end users.

I think alot of that still depends on the local AB people though.

I have had bad experience in this area trying to deal with GE, first give them a part# and wait for days and they may give you a quote. When I needed VersaPro I had to cheat a goto a distributor that was a GE rep in another state...the backdoor approach.

To me reliability is the most important issue, overall I have had only one PLC that consistently failed, ABB, check the price on one of those ....it makes ALL the others look cheap. I have seen one PLC5 cpu go bad but I have seen cards lose an input or output,usually due to an external problem though.

I Like ABB drives, not plc's or other items they sell.
I like AB in general, especially 30mm pushbuttons, indicators etc.
I have had good results with AD using a variety of items they sell.
Overall GE is reliable but they have some issues with support/sales.
I use to use Square-D everything, breakers, starters, the idec micro1(SD brand labeled it), the list goes on. Now they are part of Schneider group and I think they lost something. I dont like IEC buttons and want nothing Telemecanique. THe contactors/starters are NOT what they use to be.
Siemens I like, have a good plc support group in Johnson City TN, overall good products.

There is something to be said for all of them to a point. The main thing is to have a good local distributor to work with in most cases, barring that then AD is a good choice. They are in the category of being a local distributor in the way they market and provide support. They are far ahead of some that have been doing this for years.

Just my 2¢
 
Location, Location, Location.

Definately depends on your Local Rep. My local GE Rep is about 15 minutes away and stocks most of the stuff I use. I can get it the same day if I want to go pick it up or the next day if I order it. Plus the guys that work there are good guys. This sounds like it greatly contrasts with Ron's dealings with GE. So it comes down to two things really. Location and the types of guys you are dealing with.
 
Mike,

Mismatch of expectations.

Rockwell is an organisation that has struggled with the fact that roughly 90% of it's sales are moved through distributors.

This has the major upside that in theory the local player will know his market better, be closer to them and is able to pull through a bunch of other products and services that Rockwell as a corporate cannot.

Downside. If the local distributor fails to do their job, Rockwell gets the blame. Oh well.

As a corporate Rockwell works on a limited range of direct sales customers in the US. (The situation is often different in other countries), and your regional AB Sales Office is effectively only responsible for managing the relationship with the local distributor(s), and a number of Global Accounts and/or large OEM's.

As such they are focussed at managing complex sales to complex organisations. ie usually there are a number of people involved in the quote to cash cycle, and possibly layers of decision making within the customer organisation.

Often these organisations have very mature corporations themselves that match well to Rockwell's own corporate values and expectations.

Of course the whole list price/mulitplier thing exists so that there is a margin for the distribution chain model to be funded on. But it only works if the distributor is adding value. Most do, most of the time, otherwise the model woud have failed long before now.

AD have taken the opposite route. They sell their products direct at commodity prices, with no margin available for anyone to add value or services as a distributor. This model works fine for some customers.

You want one Pico style controller, fast and cheap. I repectfully suggest that buying from AD is likely a better match to your needs.

On the other hand taking time to find out who is who within your local distributor and taking the time to build that relationship as kamemges tells it will also pay dividends. (Plus get you the multiplier you want.)

An aside. It fascinates me that given that the USA is the "greatest nation on earth" and that patriotism is one of your most distinct national features, to observe how so many American folks in here just love to bash at every chance your ONLY remaining US owned and based, full range automation company.
 
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Another one of our most distinct national features is a nearly universal love of pure, unadulterated capitolism. This set up a nasty dychotomy and internal conflict in many of us. As a corporation operating in a capitolist society I tend to applaud Rockwell's efforts to get as much as the market will bear for their products and services. I must say they seem to do a pretty good job of clearly seeing and riding that edge, too.
However, being a consumer in that same society I look to pay not a dime more than the PERCEIVED value of what I am getting. And the real trick is in the perception. Some perceive the value that Rockwell and its distribution system provide as worth it, some don't.
The other thing that plays into this some is the patriotism thing. It's kind of like beating on your little brother. It's all fine and good for you to beat up your brother. But you will kick the @$$ of anyone else who tried to do it. People are funny that way.

Keith
 
Philip,

It fascinates me that given that the USA is the "greatest nation on earth" and that patriotism is one of your most distinct national features, to observe how so many American folks in here just love to bash at every chance your ONLY remaining US owned and based, full range automation company.

We have a thing called a lost job survey. We usually send it out to customers who canned us and request that they be up front an blunt about it. You call it Bashing I call it constructive criticism. I want to know why, and Rockwell should want to know why also.

As a patriotic American, I dont want Rockwell to loose market share or not to be able to sell a good product due to their overlooking the little guy and only focusing on GM, and FORD etc. So they have to be competitive. As I see it their distribution system is preventing them from gaining market share, and causing them to loose market share to suppliers of overseas products like ADC.

I'm sure AB has a good product, but I cant reach it because they put too many locked doors in the way and I dont have time for that. Years ago I migrated from a local distributer selling OMRON to ADC due to convenience (ordering, delivery, documentation support etc). I cant wait 5 or 6 days to complete the cycle of pricing, ordering & delivery etc. Time is money.

Like Tom said, I dont want to spend time or have lunch with my local distributer; I have work to do! AB should get with the plan.:mad:

Now I feel better...
 
Getting back to your original complaint...

Basically, you need to qualify for a discount (multiplier). All AB price lists contain only 'list' prices. Normally, there will also be a discount 'schedule' denoted at the page bottom or in a separate column. Different types of products have different schedules. Each schedule is a two-dimensional matrix. Where you fit into the matrix depends on the nature of your business and the volume of your business. In order to distinguish yourself from Mr. Anonymous passing by on the street, you will need to spend an hour or two getting acquainted with your distributor. Once they know you, they can tell you your multiplier(s).

For a product like the Pico, I wouldn't expect much, if any, discount unless you can convince them you will purchase a lot, regularly - then they might even give you one for free.
 
Pico controllers are on the "MC" discount schedule, for which the multiplier for single-volume users is... get ready.... 1.00.

The "large user discount" doesn't kick in until you're doing about $200,000 a year with them.

I found that A-B doesn't sell anything on their website that has a significant discount; note that most of the products are micro-class controllers and software, both of which are 1.00 multipliers !
 
Gerry,

As it turns out BOTH distributers are in our vendors list and we do buy other electrical supplies from them. I will check with our parts guy to find out who he talks to.

However, I guess my complaint is why should I spend 2+ days in the pursuit of purchasing components for my panels for $2,000.00, when I can spend 5 min buying the same components for the same panel for $1,000.00??? My brother-in-law attempted to sell me on AB some time ago, when I asked him about pricing and delivery etc.. he couldnt answer because where he works somebody else deals with that. But he told me all about the great shmoozing he got all the time...for specing the stuff.

I suspect that lot of app engineers out there have acclimated to their current enviroment. I get a lot of jobs because I can offer better turnaround time for the same or better price than the other guy. I never really understood why untill now.

Time is money.

Eddie, being in the Fauklands I would suspect that any discount would be 1.00+ as your in the second remotest place on the planet. I'm in Detroit, home of the big 3 or 2 now. There are three huge engineering centers in town, and we host one of the largest automation conventions in the world. (SAE) You would think AB would have a better network set up here.
 
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elevmike said:
Eric Nelson led me to the Pico controllers from AB.

Oh sure, blame ME!... :D

I can save you some aggravation, Mike. Instead of pursuing the Pico, investigate the Moeller EASY. Same thing, cheaper logo. Notice that the programs created with PicoSOFT have the .eas extension!... ;)

I won't join the AB vs. ??? battle. Been there, done that... :rolleyes:

beerchug

-Eric
 
A-B has an absolutely colossal distributor in Detroit: McNaughton & McKay. They have more stock on hand in their Michigan warehouses than A-B does at the distribution center in Twinsburg.

What blows my mind is that you do so little business with the A-B dealer that you don't even know their name, yet you expect volume discounts right out of the gate, thus your "that wasn't acceptable" comment about the website.

I'm not in the Falklands, that's a little joke with the avatar thing. I'm not a mouse from The Rescuers either.

I have the cell number of the salesman from my local A-B distributor, and we've had many Saturday morning rendezvous at his warehouse for me to pick up emergency parts when there's a whole steel mill or paper machine down. I don't think anybody runs a paper machine on a DL-06.
 
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Eddie,

I didnt want to mention names, just facts.

They are located on Lincoln in Madison Heights just off I696 and Dequiner, right across the street from GALCO! OK!

We buy a lata stuff there for our construction side of the busniess, and as it turns out the panel duct too! I picked this up on our accounting system after hours. I will have to wait until daylight to ask our parts guy who his contact is. Then mmmaabeyy I can get some positive results! As you said this place is huge, mabey too huge and thats why I had trouble.

By the way I'm not sure about a DL06 but I can guarantee you that theres at least one paper milling machine running off a DL240! I installed it 4 years ago, to replace a Mitsu. (no shutdowns since).:mad:

Hey, did I get that right? You had to drag your local AB rep out of bed early on Saturday morning many times because you had a machine down due to an AB component failure? Wow! I usually watch cartoons with my kids on Saturday morning or take them to the Zoo or Cosi or something like that.
 
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