Machine status monitoring system? Anyone come across this?

Hi guys,

Recently I've come across some request from our customers to design a system that is able to log the machine parameters like:
1) Temperature
2) Pressure
3) Speed
4) Start time
5) Stop time

The production line has around 4 machines, but they are all using different brand of PLC, Siemens x 1, Mitsubishi x 1, B & R x 1 and another one is purely mechanical (using cam to synch).

The information log must be send back to the manager room's ard 150 meters from these machines. These machine is side by side, not very far away from each other (5 - 10 m).

The main purpose of doing this is the manager is able to know what time the machine start/stop, what are the settings they are running.

Anyone has come across this application please feel free to feedback and comment.

I've heard some system where it's able to log who start/stop the machine by entering a personal code everytime they operator need to start / stop the machine and acknowledge to alarms.

Thank you.

Yes, its a standard feature we have to put in machines that we deliver to Ford and Daimler Chrysler. Chrysler calls it FIS (Factory Information System) and last I heard Ford called theirs EMS (Equipment Monitoring System) but that may have changed. In the case of FIS we have to report any event that occured that took the machine out of Auto Mode (faults, operator interventions, etc) and blocked/starved situations. Haven't run into a GM requirement but it probably exists in some of their facilities, just not the ones I currently work at.

jstolaruk said:

Yes, its a standard feature we have to put in machines that we deliver to Ford and Daimler Chrysler. Chrysler calls it FIS (Factory Information System) and last I heard Ford called theirs EMS (Equipment Monitoring System) but that may have changed. In the case of FIS we have to report any event that occured that took the machine out of Auto Mode (faults, operator interventions, etc) and blocked/starved situations. Haven't run into a GM requirement but it probably exists in some of their facilities, just not the ones I currently work at.

Click to expand...

Hi,

I'm interested to know what kind of system/controller/PLC/SCADA that you are using? Or you have a 3rd party hardware/software that does all these monitorong/capturing data to feedback to manager's desk?

I haven't been involved in choosing a specific brand of SCADA for many years; there have been many that have come and gone. I've only been involved with Allen Bradley systems so I can't speak for a Siemens or other PLC implementation but I could visual it being similar if not the same. Here is one layout I usually see:

For a manufacturing process that has many machines/PLCs, a "Data Concentrator" PLC is setup to simply act as a depository of specified events and to disperse SCADA commands to each individual machine as needed. Something with lots of communication bandwidth and memory. PLC-3s (old days but lots of memory) and PLC-5s are/were popular choices when DH+/Remote I/O were the communication network but I could now see the ControlLogix processors being a better choice because it can support all of the different networks available. The Data Concentrator would be the information conduit between the SCADA system and the machinery on the plant floor.

Each individual machine PLC would have a dedicated memory block with a protocol that is used to send up status information and to receive SCADA commands. The Data Concentrator could monitor the contents of that memory block and report changes to the SCADA system or a piece of logic running in the machine could send up messages to the concentrator. The concentrator would then format the collected data the way the SCADA system liked to see it and transfer it to the SCADA database.

I haven't done any work on the SCADA end for quite sometime time (we always put the college interns on that because of their inexperience on the machine end) so I'm not familiar with the choices out there but the plants I work in still retain the data concentrator layout.

Many of the SCADA companies have a approved integrators so I would chose the system you like, and take a description of your process with a equipment list, and contact one of the integrators local to you and have them prepare a quote.

Hope this helps. I'm sure there is someone here that is involved deeper on the SCADA end that could give you some more info.

Simple way is to loop these signals on to one PLC which you know. Other signels like sped and start stop time can be derived and can be connected to this PLC. If you do this way you will be able to deliver to your manager the data with resonable accuracy and without worrying for the diffrent PLC brands

I did a lot of work with Ford's monitoring system. I can't get into specifics, but they call it "POSMON" and it used the Siemens OPC Server. It reported pretty basic items such as machine status, cycle time, and faults. I would have done it differently, but from what I understand it was based on an older legacy system and they were pretty much locked into that functionality. As for a SCADA system, I'm doing a pretty serious evaluation of Inductive Automation's. It is basically a web-based HMI with a SQL database sitting between it and an OPC Server of my choice. The concept is pretty simple and I like the inherent data logging functionality. I'm used to the responsiveness of the Kepware OPC Server though, and I wonder what the HMI is going to look like with everything being written to a SQL database first. Should be interesting.

jstolaruk: Thanks for your info, yes, if they are using same brand of PLC, that would make my day a lot easier, sadly, all the machines are from diff make & PLC.

Milind: You suggestion is to use one machine PLC that I know (for example Mitsubishi) and the other 3 machines data will be send to the Mitsubishi PLC. So, from the Mitsubishi PLC, the data will be send to the data logger software. By doing this, I can loop the pressure or temperature signal (4-20) mA, to the Mitsubishi PLC, but the speed of the other machines cannot be send to the Mitsubishi PLC thru hardwire because the speed is calculated from the PLC by using many parameters.

S7Guy: thx for ur info...

I was thinking, 2 options:

1) Is like what Milind suggest, but using another new PLC purposely for data collection only, all Digital & Analog data that need to be logged will be spiltted into the new data collection PLC (minimize their downtime). But the speed of the mahcine is the problem here.

2) Put a RS232 to Ethernet converter at each PLC. Link all the PLC into Ethernet. Data log using 3rd party SCADA (Wonderware). Cons: Programming involve, 3 types of PLC.

Have a look at Red Lion Controls, www.redlion.net for their "Data Station Plus" protocol converter with intergarted web server, which is programmed with Crimson software (free download).

http://www.redlion.net/Products/HumanMachineInterface/DataStationPlus.html

Also a similar device is the **** from www.****.be for remote maintenance of PLC's with a built in web server.

Guys,

I've come across something like this:
http://www.advantech.com/products/Model_Detail.asp?model_id=1-23HX3O&BU=EA&PD=

What you guys think?

I was thinking to put one module of RTD input & one module of DI&DO at every machine, then all these ADAM module will link back to the SCADA (wonderware) using Modbus/TCP (not sure Wonderware has Modbus/TCP or not).

I do this with Citect SCADA all the time. www.citect.com for a free trial and devlopment download.

Alarms, events (a different type of alarm is the easiest), etc.

Drivers for just about everything too.

BobB said:

I do this with Citect SCADA all the time. www.citect.com for a free trial and devlopment download.

Alarms, events (a different type of alarm is the easiest), etc.

Drivers for just about everything too.

Click to expand...

BobB, do you mean you've tried pulling data from a Mitsubishi A series, B&R & Siemens PLC S7 at the same time using Citect before?

What type of network are you using? I was wondering the Ethernet on these 3 PLC are the same? I heard Ethernet also got many types/layers?

No, I have not tried a combination similar to that. I have run Omron Controller Link to 5 networked PLCs with a total of 14 Device Net loops off the PLCs, Modbus RTU (RS232 with 232/485 converters) to a fire panel, BACnet OPC server over Ethernet into an Alerton BMS system and Ethernet (a separate card) into an AB PLC all on the same Citect installation. I had to buy the BACnet OPC driver and RS Links as these were not included in Citect. The Modbus RTU and Omron Controller Link drivers did not cost me anything. They do not include the BACnet driver and this is typical of OPC. I have not had happy experiences with OPC and prefer to use brand specific drivers. AB has/had a policy of not allowing Citect to include their RS Links with the product as they want to sell it to the customer separately. Omron has a vastly different point of view regarding drivers and the drivers were free issued on a separate CD upon request. This may have changed.

With respect to the other drivers you may require, check at http://www3.citect.com/mycitect/downloads/drivers
I hope it will let you in as it is part of My Citect where you have to be a member, although you can join I believe. I belong as a systems integrator by the way. Different PLC companies have different policies on drivers but you can search for what drivers/PLCs are supported at the driver web link above.

If the drivers are all installed and configured correctly, there is absolutely no reason that Citect cannot read from all of these devices at the same time. You may have to put in a separate Ethernet card for each protocol, that is all.

By the way, years ago I had Citect polling 11 PLCs on a serial link through a Digi Board 16 port accelerated serial card. It was slow, as you can probably imagine, but worked without any problems whatsoever. There were 3 different brands of PLC being polled at the same time by this method.
Citect is now owned by Schneider by the way but run as a separate entity and will continue to put in place the latest communications methods/protocols for the different brands.

If you think POSMON is for legacy systems, you haven't come across the infamous Ford PFIS !!!!

Try this site, we use the system and it works fine, runs with any plc that has ethernet and a opc.

http://www.pragma.co.za/index.php