PanelView Plus firmware and Factory Talk Studio version compatibility

A client of mine has a contract to rebuild and modify four machines, each of which has a Compact Logix PLC and a PanelView Plus HMI. Last year we did two of the machines. We had to upgrade the firmware on the HMIs to accept the .mer files created with the version of Factory Talk Studio (v8.2).
The next two machines arrived recently and when we tried to upgrade the PanelView firmware it seems that the firmware is only compatible with version 6 PV Plus units. Theses two are both version 5.
Is there anything we can do to the PanelViews to allow us to download the .mer file from Factory Talk Studio version 8.2?
I have an old Factory Talk version 5.1 installation CD. Will the license that they purchased along with Factory Talk Studio version 8.2 apply to an installation of that?
I can obtain and post the actual part numbers from the PanelView units as well as the version information from FactoryTalk Studio if necessary.

Steve Bailey said:

I can obtain and post the actual part numbers from the PanelView units as well as the version information from FactoryTalk Studio if necessary.

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That would be helpful Steve; also the terminals' current firmware revision (usually on the factory label) would be relevant too.

FTV Studio v.8.20 could create Runtimes as low as 5.0, so terminals running firmware 5.0 should be okay.

The simplest solution is to have FTView Studio ME create your runtime files for the older firmware terminals. This is done when you create the Runtime; there's a drop-down menu that should let you go all the way back to v3.2.

Unless the applications have ActiveX components or features that are only supported by the OS and firmware of the PV+6 and later, then the Runtime should load and run with no problems on the older terminal.

I have a set of machines with a similar issue; we built eight of them with PV+ version 5.10 terminals, and then four more a few years later when the PV+6 was the current model. We had to carefully fork the project because we did rely on a couple of ActiveX controls.

"Downgrading" FTView ME Studio is impossible, and I ever recommend against upgrades on the same machine. Fresh installs on VMs is the only way I handle FTView.

FTV Studio v.8.20 could create Runtimes as low as 5.0

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I went to check my FTView Studio ME installation. The last project I did was for a PV+7 Standard model, and it allows only Versions 8.20, 8.10, and 8.0 runtimes to be created.

I made a new project and specified the hardware as "PV+700-1500", and the runtime options expanded to go all the way down to 5.0.

So at some point, probably after FTView Studio ME 7.0, the support for versions 3.x and 4.x were removed.

The existing project files for the machines we did last year are for a PV + 6. Can they be saved as the earlier version? Or will we have to extract the runtime from the HMI on this year's machines and duplicate the modifications we made to the machines we did last year?

Steve Bailey said:

The existing project files for the machines we did last year are for a PV + 6. Can they be saved as the earlier version?

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Yes; if the HMI terminals of the machines to be converted this year are running firmware 5.0, FactoryTalk View Studio ME v8.20 will create terminal Runtime (.mer) files (v.5.0) compatible with this year's terminals.

Steve Bailey said:

Or will we have to extract the runtime from the HMI on this year's machines and duplicate the modifications we made to the machines we did last year?

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This is another valid option, however, it will require considerable more 'conversion' time.

That's the answer I was hoping to hear. Thanks dmargineau.

You're welcome Steve.

The '6' next to the PanelView Plus denotes that the HMI is running a Windows CE 6.0 (Embedded) operating system; it doesn't have anything to do with the FactoryTalk View ME station version.

I believe the FTV ME Station was at v.4.3 when the PV+6s came out...Although I might be wrong...I am sure Ken will let us know...

"PanelView Plus 6" was the hardware platform that coincided with the release of FTView ME 6.0 as well as the Windows CE 6.0 operating system. So you could really say that either one of the numbers was the reason for the name.

As far as I know, the PanelView Plus 6 hardware can run versions 6, 7, 8, or 9 of the FTView ME firmware. I've used dozens of them.

"PanelView Plus 7" is another hardware iteration for the family, where the performance and feature sets were changed and they became non-modular. Those terminals will run FTView ME firmware 8 or 9 only.

The good news is that Steve's older machines with FTView ME 5.x firmware on them can be programmed by creating a runtime with his current FTView ME Studio 8.2 development environment, and simply choosing the 5.0 or 5.10 firmware revision for the target.

I have... let's say my experience with FTView ME 5.10 is very deep and very extensive. I very strongly recommend that you upgrade to the latest version of 5.10 that is available for your hardware. If it's a PV+ 700-1500 terminal without ControlNet, then use 5.10.16, which is the most current release.

Be careful when downgrading to 5.x .mer. if you're using a 64bit computer you will not be able to upload the .mer In the future.

Treye2005 said:

Be careful when downgrading to 5.x .mer. if you're using a 64bit computer you will not be able to upload the .mer In the future.

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Just to add a little bit more context...

As plenty of people above have said, FTView Studio can create a runtime (.mer) file of any version up to and including it's own version. So if you have v8.2, you can create runtime files for version 5.10, no problem.

As plenty of people have also said, a PVP can run a runtime (.mer) file of any version up to and including it's own firmware revision. So if you have a v5.10 .mer file, any PVP with firmware 5.10 or above can run it.

What Treye refers to above is the ability to restore a runtime (.mer) file back into FTView Studio to modify it.

When you create your runtime file, you are given the option to "always allow conversion", "allow conversion with password" or "never allow conversion" - i.e. referring to, if someone uploads the .mer file from the PVP, can they use application manager to restore the .mer file back into FTView Studio and modify it.

If your development machine is a 64-bit machine, and you are creating a runtime file of v5.10 or earlier, the option for allowing conversion (with or without a password) is greyed out. So although anyone can upload the .mer from the PVP and transfer it to a new one, for example if there is the need for a replacement screen, nobody will be able to restore the uploaded .mer file into FTView for editing.

If you backup to an .apa file and distribute it to anyone who might conceivably need to modify the PVP program in the future, no problem. The .apa can always be converted. Or, if the OS you create the .mer file on is 32 bit, no problem. The option to allow conversion is available.

Update:
I received the following from my client this morning

I was able to save the Factory Talk View setup as version 5.10 and load it into the control.
However, now when the screen boots, the “Starting Alarms. Please wait” takes about 10 minutes to load.
At this point, it does display the HMI bootup screens, but every press of the button takes about 10 minutes to load.
I also noticed that a string of question marks ‘???????????????????????????????’ were displayed where the local messages are normally displayed, so I suspect there is a version translation issue regarding the local messages.

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Any ideas or things to check for?

It seems that the RSLinx Enterprise communications are not setup correctly since "Starting Alarms...", long boot-up and '???????????' are lack of PLC communications symptoms.

Was the Runtime tested on a PC prior to download?

I just want to, well, do what I do...

Ken Roach said:

...there's a drop-down menu that should let you go all the way back to v3.2...

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Nearly...

For the FactoryTalk View Studio versions that support back as far as v3.x MER applications, the oldest you can select on the "Create Runtime Application" window is v3.10.

Ken Roach said:

...the runtime options expanded to go all the way down to 5.0.

So at some point, probably after FTView Studio ME 7.0, the support for versions 3.x and 4.x were removed.

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Support for versions 3.x and 4.x MER applications was removed at FactoryTalk View Studio v8.2. Up to FactoryTalk View Studio v7 you can still "Create Runtime Application" back as far as v3.10.

ASF said:

Just to add a little bit more context...

...If your development machine is a 64-bit machine, and you are creating a runtime file of v5.10 or earlier, the option for allowing conversion (with or without a password) is greyed out...

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The now infamous x64 friendly SQL Tag Database, which replaced the outcast x86 WATCOM Tag Database, was introduced at FactoryTalk View Studio v6.10. If FTVS v6.10 is installed on an x64 OS, then v6.00 or earlier will default to "Never allow conversion" under the "Conversion to development application" section, on the "Create Runtime Application" window.

I often see that one mixed up i.e. thinking the "fun" started when they went from FTVS v5.x to v6.x. It was specifically when they went from v6.00 to v6.10.

Steve Bailey said:

...when the screen boots, the “Starting Alarms. Please wait” takes about 10 minutes to load...

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In my experience, when I've come across this particular issue, it has been a corrupted or misconfigured controller shortcut. Deleting and recreating the shortcut fixed the issue. However, there are other possibilities, which are mentioned here...

467579 - PanelView Plus v5.10 hangs at "Display Loading" or "Starting Alarms" or "Starting Application"
Access Level: TechConnect

Regards,
George

Problem solved by correctly configuring the communications. My client selected the wrong item in the RSView tree. The base PLC instead of the Ethernet module.
A clear case of operator error. My client is a CNC and robot guy and as most of you know I'm more familiar with GE products.