Troubleshooting my first Mitsubishi PLC, FX1S-3MR0-001

AutomationTechBrian · Jun 19, 2020

Minutes ago, I got some pics sent to me from a fellow Tech's customer. They asked me if I've ever worked with a Mitsubishi PLC. I said no, but I *just* got the software... so this would be a good time to start. It was the end of the day, so we had a quick chat about the issue so I could think about it over the weekend. They said nothing worked. They have two more machines like this, and the first think they noticed is that none of the outputs were lit. Not knowing anything about the quirks of Mitsubishi, the thing I wonder is if it lost the program. (Volatile RAM?) I don't see an error light... would it light if there were no program? Any experienced Mitsubishi people have thoughts? Obviously the inputs are lit, and it is powered-on and in "Run", with no errors. I did not think to ask them if they checked their e-stops, although my fellow tech is unlikely to overlook that. What would you think if you saw this situation?

parky · Jun 20, 2020

The output LED's are powered from internal power supply so it is unlikely that that is the problem. as the run led is on then it is in run mode then it looks like either one of the inputs is used to monitor either PSU or E-stop relay perhaps X0 and they use this to disable all outputs in the code (quite common practice).
Or there is a fault in the output circuits not detected by the processor. It could be the program is lost or been reset in that case an empty program will allow the PLC to go into run mode. You will need to go on-line to find if the program exists or if as suspected, one of the inputs is not on causing no outputs to be enabled.
You will need an SC09 232/422 converter if you have win 10 then many of the USB to 232 converters work with the SC09 cable. What software have you got GX Developer or GXWorks2. If you have never worked with it before, create a new project (If you do not have source file you will need to run GX Developer mode) set the PLC Type, go to ONLINE/Transfer Setup and Select connection test (the communications parameters are normally correct for the processor type), if ok then go to ONLINE Upload from PLC to get the program
If there is a program you should see the ladder appear, save it then you have a copy but there will be no comments, it is possible to have the comments or project stored in the PLC but people rarely use it and on the FX1 there is usually not enough memory to store it. There could also be a password set in that case you would need to contact the original supplier.

Copyleft · Jun 20, 2020

This PLC use EEPROM
Addend to Parky comment;
The bit to disable all outputs is M8034.

You can download trial version of GXWorks2 at mitsubishi site but you need sign in.

At GXWorks 2 you can enable all comments for D8000 and M8000 devices.

At project view right click in local device comment;
Add new data;
double click main at local device comment, will open new window in the right side;
you can right click in the new window (Device comment main) and select import from sample comment > Special relay / Special Register or
go to Edit > select import from sample comment > Special relay / Special Register

AutomationTechBrian · Jun 20, 2020

parky said:
The output LED's are powered from internal power supply so it is unlikely that that is the problem. as the run led is on then it is in run mode then it looks like either one of the inputs is used to monitor either PSU or E-stop relay perhaps X0 and they use this to disable all outputs in the code (quite common practice).
Or there is a fault in the output circuits not detected by the processor. It could be the program is lost or been reset in that case an empty program will allow the PLC to go into run mode. You will need to go on-line to find if the program exists or if as suspected, one of the inputs is not on causing no outputs to be enabled.
You will need an SC09 232/422 converter if you have win 10 then many of the USB to 232 converters work with the SC09 cable. What software have you got GX Developer or GXWorks2. If you have never worked with it before, create a new project (If you do not have source file you will need to run GX Developer mode) set the PLC Type, go to ONLINE/Transfer Setup and Select connection test (the communications parameters are normally correct for the processor type), if ok then go to ONLINE Upload from PLC to get the program
If there is a program you should see the ladder appear, save it then you have a copy but there will be no comments, it is possible to have the comments or project stored in the PLC but people rarely use it and on the FX1 there is usually not enough memory to store it. There could also be a password set in that case you would need to contact the original supplier.

Wow, Parky... I figured it was a good idea to ask, but this is beyond what I expected! And Copyleft... thank you for the extra info! If it matters, I actually have GXWorks 3 (purchased) on a Windows 7 VM. I also have an SC09 that we purchased from Paul (Geniusintraining). https://www.plccable.com/mitsubishi-plc-cable-usb-sc09-fx-melsec-sc-09-usb-fx/

At this point, everything is brand-new... this will be the first time using it. I always get a little excited adding another software package to the tool-bag. I'm sure most of you can relate to that!

parky · Jun 20, 2020

Certainly can Yes GXWorks3 is the latest version, If you do not have the source file then you will need to set it as simple project & ladder as I suspect they will not have downloaded the source to the PLC. Forgot to mention, as the last poster mentioned there is M8034 also M8035 to M8037 can be manipulated for example M8037 can be turned on by X0-X7 to stop the outputs this is sometimes programmed using one of the inputs to monitor an e-stop circuit and turn outputs off I think any of those bits can be used to run or stop the outputs if programmed.

Copyleft · Jun 21, 2020

I see, you have GXWorks 3. I have IQWorks2 (mitsubishi full package with motion, HMI etc)
Im not sure but IQWorks when you install it you get the option too install GXWorks2, GXDeveloper and GXsimulator too.
GXWorks2 is what you use for development in FX1S for example, and if you skipped the GXWorks2 installation i dont think you can work, im not sure...probably youll get message when try to start development of FX series using GXWorks3.
When i choose FX from GXWorks 3 its cloose and open in compatible mode the GXWorks2 named GXWorks3 Compatible Mode...

Parky, M8035 (Forced operation mode), M8036(Forced RUN signal) and M8037 (Forced STOP signal) all inputs is allowed to turn on/off between X000 and X017 in the model hes using. Just at project view go to Parameter > PLC Parameter (double click) > and select PLC System(1).
FX0S/FX0 series dont have this option in Parameter, need use X000 to X007>

Here at where i work we dont use forced stop for Estop.

parky · Jun 21, 2020

GXworks3 will let you create an FX program it opens it in compatible mode, I believe it's GXWorks2 that requires GX Developer. You may not use the stop modes but many do I must admit I have never used them I prefer just to disable power to the outputs but as there are no outputs it may be enabled or it could just be a contact off the safety is fed to an input and used in the program to disable any outputs.

Copyleft · Jun 21, 2020

GXWorks3 compatible CPU`s
RCPU
LHCPU
FX5CPU
NCCPU

GXWorks2 compatible CPU`s
QCPU(Q mode)
LCPU
FXCPU (from FX0 to FX3 series) accept simple project (Ladder and SFC) structured project (ST, Structured Ladder/FBD, IL)
But FX0S/FX0, FX0N and FX1 using simple project just accept ladder, from FX1S to FX3 at simple project is allowed to mix Ladder with ST, for this;
start new project (Project Type: simple project but leave unchecked Use Label, Language: Ladder) > select Project > Change Project Type > select Change Project Type and click OK

GX Developer compatible CPU`s
QCPU(A mode)
QSCPU
QnCPU
ACPU
MOTION(SCPU)
FXCPU (Ladder and SFC) you cant mix Ladder with ST no option for this
CNC(M6/M7)

At Windows Task Manager we can check whats running into the system, if we open GXWorks3 and select incompatible CPU`s at task manager is easy to check the GXWorks2 is running. GXWorks2 when we select incompatible CPU`s we receive message *Start GX Developer and create a new project

We here at my work dont use forced stop because using this for Estop we cant monitoring, diagnosis faulty conditions etc. I worked in one machine and this machine used Estop for RUN signal, when you press the Estop everithing stop and if you release the Estop all started move (if you stoped at move sequence)dangegour so i changed.
I see your point, usually i do the same just disable power to output.

parky · Jun 22, 2020

GXWorks3 will do all FX range in structured mode just like works 2, however, I have both so I'm not sure if it's trying to use either 3 or 2. I know that a simple project uses GXDeveloper but as I have that installed (as an original install) again not sure what version it is using. I noticed if I create a works3 project although the IDE states it's works 3 the help about shows works 2 confusing.
On top of that, if it was programmed in GXIEC Developer some code will not translate into ladder as the STL code does not always translate, came across this when I uploaded a FX2N done in GXIEC, it would not compile and showed unconnected ladder, however, in STL it would download. I had to assume some of the ladder & re-code it, I did manage to get the source file eventually it turned out that there were a few bugs in GXIEC but the logic worked it was due to the way it compiled it things like AND LD, OR LD MPP etc. were missing. However, in the OP's case without the source he has no choice but to use GXDeveloper.

sczot · Jun 22, 2020

Is there any safety circuit on the machine (didnt find it mentioned) if so, outputs are usually wired to turn of after safety failure...

Copyleft · Jun 22, 2020

parky said:
GXWorks3 will do all FX range in structured mode just like works 2, however, I have both so I'm not sure if it's trying to use either 3 or 2. I know that a simple project uses GXDeveloper but as I have that installed (as an original install) again not sure what version it is using. I noticed if I create a works3 project although the IDE states it's works 3 the help about shows works 2 confusing.
On top of that, if it was programmed in GXIEC Developer some code will not translate into ladder as the STL code does not always translate, came across this when I uploaded a FX2N done in GXIEC, it would not compile and showed unconnected ladder, however, in STL it would download. I had to assume some of the ladder & re-code it, I did manage to get the source file eventually it turned out that there were a few bugs in GXIEC but the logic worked it was due to the way it compiled it things like AND LD, OR LD MPP etc. were missing. However, in the OP's case without the source he has no choice but to use GXDeveloper.

Dude just check using the windosw task maneger crtl + alt + del, pretty simple
GXWorks3 use around 100Mb and GXWorks2 30Mb. At my screenshot i showed GXWorks2 because i open straight it instead from GXWorks3 (Open GXWorks3, Close GXWorks3 and Open GXWORKS2 with title bar GXWorks3 compatible mode)
GXIEC is obsolete!The last version is from 2019 (8.504A)because win10 one before that is from 2016 (8.119Z)...
Again! FX1S use GXWorks2 or search for melsec course at your area in UK, here in Japan is pretty cheap 2 days class is US$150

parky · Jun 22, 2020

I know GXIEC is obsolete, the point I wanted to make is that if it had been written in GXIEC it may not translate directly into ladder, as I said It can leave non connected ladder because of some bugs they never sorted, however, the logic works but if uploaded it may not re-compile as true ladder.

AutomationTechBrian · Jun 27, 2020

Update: I've scheduled next Wednesday to troubleshoot the PLC. There's a chance it'll need to be rescheduled. When I find the issue, I'll post it here.

Thanks for the Mitsubishi info. This will be a good one to print out (save as PDF on my "manuals and notes" tablet).

AutomationTechBrian · Jul 2, 2020

I'm getting ready to go to the customer's location today. I believe this is what I'll need to do (see pic).

parky · Jul 2, 2020

Yes you can do it that way probably easiest. good luck

Troubleshooting my first Mitsubishi PLC, FX1S-3MR0-001

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