Ron Beaufort
Lifetime Supporting Member
First let me say this: I will absolutely agree that there are indeed incredibly stupid, ignorant, and lazy people in the world. If Terry wants an “Amen” for that argument, then I am happy to oblige.
But still -
Today I am employed by a large Allen-Bradley distributor. My job title is “Inside Technical Support” – a catch-all title which includes answering customers’ telephone requests for technical assistance on PLC’s, etc. – helping our sales force with technical specifications and when necessary – cleaning oak leaves out of the gutters on the roof of the building. And, I also conduct week-long workshops for customer training from time to time – but that is NOT an advertisement. I am extremely happy here – in fact, if I were to win the lottery today, I’d still be back to “work” (more like play) tomorrow.
Well, that’s today - but long ago - in a previous existence -
I once was a PLC instructor at a local tech school. And - I was known – heck, I was INFAMOUS – for eating stupid, ignorant, and lazy people for breakfast. Case in point: the automation lab which I (mostly) personally built soon became known as “Ron’s Torture Chamber” - and in keeping with the motif, a group of students chipped in and bought a little gargoyle (his name was Booger due to a defective casting in the nostril area) to perch on a top shelf and help intimidate the students in my classes. (I swear that this is the truth). I was constantly running into trouble with the “powers that be” for being “too tough” on the students. A prime example: I had placed a copy of a first-grade writing tablet on each workbench – and insisted that my students form the letters on their wiring diagrams to match the examples printed on the tablets. (Johnnie, don’t you DARE tell me, “Oh, that’s how I make a “D”. Your “D” had better look just like the “D” on this tablet or it’s WRONG and your grade will certainly reflect your error.) The school in question has in its Catalog/Student Handbook the following disclaimer (and I’m quoting verbatim here): “The College does not guarantee, however, that the completion of any course or program of study will result in the acquisition of knowledge or skills or will enable you to pass or complete any specific examination for any course, degree or license.” Catch that? Even if you COMPLETE the course – we don’t guarantee that you will have ACQUIRED ANY KNOWLEDGE. Trust me – the “powers that be” and yours truly went around and around on that one. It seems (as some of you may be aware) that when “Little Johnnie” doesn’t graduate, that negatively impacts the college’s bottom line. Surely you didn’t think that your tuition payments alone could keep the school afloat? We’re talking about state and federal appropriations here, people. Graduations are good (more $$$), failures are bad (less $$$). So the “powers that be” want every “Little Johnnie” to graduate – whether he knows diddly about PLC’s or not. (And that's why we have the disclaimer). But, me personally – well, I can ASSURE you that anyone who COMPLETED the courses that I taught had ACQUIRED KNOWLEDGE. Guaranteed. The final exams for my courses were two days long – all practical knowledge. Examples: the robot in the Assembly Cell won’t load the vise – go troubleshoot it and fix it. The agitator in Tank A won’t run at all – go troubleshoot it and fix it. Some were wiring problems, some were programming problems, some were bad sensors inserted into the equipment, etc., etc. A student once asked me, “How do you know we’re not going to discuss the questions overnight?” If I had nine students – then I had nine different final exams. My answer: “Go ahead – knock yourself out.” Multiple choice tests? I actually (no lie) cut and pasted the questions and answers into different orders for different students. Question number 4 on Johnnie’s test – is number 17 on Bob’s - and the correct answer is “b” on Johnnie’s but it’s “d” on Bob’s. Yes, it took me days to set all of this stuff up, but once you successfully got through it – well, you, and I, and your prospective employer all KNEW that YOU KNEW something about PLC’s and how to work with them. Now I’ve said all of that - just to say this:
If anyone thinks that the guy in the “Amen” corner (meaning me) is a pushover for any and every stupid, ignorant or lazy student that comes along – well, think again. Yes, I will absolutely agree that there are indeed incredibly stupid, ignorant, and lazy people in the world. And I for one, am completely in agreement with Terry (et al.) that I don’t want them out there working on systems which are dangerous to themselves and to others. And yes, I’ve done my fair share of weeding them out of the gene pool.
But still –
For the students in my classes who did really, truly (even desperately) want to learn the material, I used to keep the lab open late at nights - and on weekends – and I personally tutored and tried my best to help them make it successfully through the course. And in ALMOST every case, where I had originally thought that the student was “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” - I found instead that they just were having a hard time expressing the ideas that they didn’t understand. After all – “What don’t you understand about it?” is a pretty dumb question for an instructor to ask, when you get right down to it. From the student’s point of view, it’s sort of like trying to look in the dictionary to see how to spell a word – when you have absolutely no idea how to spell the word in the first place. But if I gave them a little extra time, usually (but no, NOT always) the “stupid, ignorant, lazy” ones turned out just fine – after all, most of them were decent people trying to find a way to feed their families. That’s got to be some type of common ground for most of us.
But still -
My problem with the harassment and ridicule that is heaped upon some of the “beginner” posters in this forum is this: I am personally convinced that MOST (but no, not all) of what some “old-timers” take for “stupid, ignorant or lazy” questions are really just examples of poorly expressed attempts at communication. Look at the country flags for Pete’s sake. Some of these guys aren’t even native English speakers – and the fact that they can make themselves understood at all is quite impressive to me. I’d personally hate to try learning something as confusing as PLC’s in another language. I’m quite comfortable with English myself – and I still found this subject to be plenty confusing when I was first getting started. (Hey, here’s an idea: let’s find a PLC forum written in Swahili and go post a few questions about the “traffic light” over there. Maybe they’ll think we look pretty “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” too). And as for which topics should be considered basic – and which ones should be considered advanced: Well, tying my own shoes used to seem pretty advanced - until I understood it. Same thing with PLC’s. The more that I understand – the more amazed I am with how confusing it all USED TO seem. I suspect that the subject of brain surgery is pretty much the same way. Once you KNOW it, NOTHING is as bad as it used to seem.
So my PERSONAL philosophy (for anyone who’s interested) is this:
If you THINK that a question has been posted by a person who is “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” – take another look. Maybe they’re just having a hard time communicating. Some of us have more trouble in that area than others. Why not simply ask them, “What have you tried so far?” The length and depth of their response (if any) should help to clarify their intentions.
On the other hand, if you’re CONVINCED that a question has been posted by a person who is “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” – why not just walk away - and let them wither on the vine? Harassing or ridiculing them will not make them any less “stupid, ignorant, or lazy”. It’s pretty much the same thing as trying to educate another driver by leaning on your horn. It just doesn’t work, folks.
And (more-or-less) finally, this would probably be a good place to slide in something about the “Golden Rule” – but I’ve found that those who don’t already try to live by it are seldom influenced by having it quoted to them.
And (really) finally, if ANYONE wants to say that there are indeed incredibly stupid, ignorant, and lazy people in the world – then certainly I, for one, would offer a hearty “Amen”. On the other hand, if you want to argue that the best way to deal with them is through harassment and ridicule – then I think I’ll hold off on that one.
But still -
Today I am employed by a large Allen-Bradley distributor. My job title is “Inside Technical Support” – a catch-all title which includes answering customers’ telephone requests for technical assistance on PLC’s, etc. – helping our sales force with technical specifications and when necessary – cleaning oak leaves out of the gutters on the roof of the building. And, I also conduct week-long workshops for customer training from time to time – but that is NOT an advertisement. I am extremely happy here – in fact, if I were to win the lottery today, I’d still be back to “work” (more like play) tomorrow.
Well, that’s today - but long ago - in a previous existence -
I once was a PLC instructor at a local tech school. And - I was known – heck, I was INFAMOUS – for eating stupid, ignorant, and lazy people for breakfast. Case in point: the automation lab which I (mostly) personally built soon became known as “Ron’s Torture Chamber” - and in keeping with the motif, a group of students chipped in and bought a little gargoyle (his name was Booger due to a defective casting in the nostril area) to perch on a top shelf and help intimidate the students in my classes. (I swear that this is the truth). I was constantly running into trouble with the “powers that be” for being “too tough” on the students. A prime example: I had placed a copy of a first-grade writing tablet on each workbench – and insisted that my students form the letters on their wiring diagrams to match the examples printed on the tablets. (Johnnie, don’t you DARE tell me, “Oh, that’s how I make a “D”. Your “D” had better look just like the “D” on this tablet or it’s WRONG and your grade will certainly reflect your error.) The school in question has in its Catalog/Student Handbook the following disclaimer (and I’m quoting verbatim here): “The College does not guarantee, however, that the completion of any course or program of study will result in the acquisition of knowledge or skills or will enable you to pass or complete any specific examination for any course, degree or license.” Catch that? Even if you COMPLETE the course – we don’t guarantee that you will have ACQUIRED ANY KNOWLEDGE. Trust me – the “powers that be” and yours truly went around and around on that one. It seems (as some of you may be aware) that when “Little Johnnie” doesn’t graduate, that negatively impacts the college’s bottom line. Surely you didn’t think that your tuition payments alone could keep the school afloat? We’re talking about state and federal appropriations here, people. Graduations are good (more $$$), failures are bad (less $$$). So the “powers that be” want every “Little Johnnie” to graduate – whether he knows diddly about PLC’s or not. (And that's why we have the disclaimer). But, me personally – well, I can ASSURE you that anyone who COMPLETED the courses that I taught had ACQUIRED KNOWLEDGE. Guaranteed. The final exams for my courses were two days long – all practical knowledge. Examples: the robot in the Assembly Cell won’t load the vise – go troubleshoot it and fix it. The agitator in Tank A won’t run at all – go troubleshoot it and fix it. Some were wiring problems, some were programming problems, some were bad sensors inserted into the equipment, etc., etc. A student once asked me, “How do you know we’re not going to discuss the questions overnight?” If I had nine students – then I had nine different final exams. My answer: “Go ahead – knock yourself out.” Multiple choice tests? I actually (no lie) cut and pasted the questions and answers into different orders for different students. Question number 4 on Johnnie’s test – is number 17 on Bob’s - and the correct answer is “b” on Johnnie’s but it’s “d” on Bob’s. Yes, it took me days to set all of this stuff up, but once you successfully got through it – well, you, and I, and your prospective employer all KNEW that YOU KNEW something about PLC’s and how to work with them. Now I’ve said all of that - just to say this:
If anyone thinks that the guy in the “Amen” corner (meaning me) is a pushover for any and every stupid, ignorant or lazy student that comes along – well, think again. Yes, I will absolutely agree that there are indeed incredibly stupid, ignorant, and lazy people in the world. And I for one, am completely in agreement with Terry (et al.) that I don’t want them out there working on systems which are dangerous to themselves and to others. And yes, I’ve done my fair share of weeding them out of the gene pool.
But still –
For the students in my classes who did really, truly (even desperately) want to learn the material, I used to keep the lab open late at nights - and on weekends – and I personally tutored and tried my best to help them make it successfully through the course. And in ALMOST every case, where I had originally thought that the student was “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” - I found instead that they just were having a hard time expressing the ideas that they didn’t understand. After all – “What don’t you understand about it?” is a pretty dumb question for an instructor to ask, when you get right down to it. From the student’s point of view, it’s sort of like trying to look in the dictionary to see how to spell a word – when you have absolutely no idea how to spell the word in the first place. But if I gave them a little extra time, usually (but no, NOT always) the “stupid, ignorant, lazy” ones turned out just fine – after all, most of them were decent people trying to find a way to feed their families. That’s got to be some type of common ground for most of us.
But still -
My problem with the harassment and ridicule that is heaped upon some of the “beginner” posters in this forum is this: I am personally convinced that MOST (but no, not all) of what some “old-timers” take for “stupid, ignorant or lazy” questions are really just examples of poorly expressed attempts at communication. Look at the country flags for Pete’s sake. Some of these guys aren’t even native English speakers – and the fact that they can make themselves understood at all is quite impressive to me. I’d personally hate to try learning something as confusing as PLC’s in another language. I’m quite comfortable with English myself – and I still found this subject to be plenty confusing when I was first getting started. (Hey, here’s an idea: let’s find a PLC forum written in Swahili and go post a few questions about the “traffic light” over there. Maybe they’ll think we look pretty “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” too). And as for which topics should be considered basic – and which ones should be considered advanced: Well, tying my own shoes used to seem pretty advanced - until I understood it. Same thing with PLC’s. The more that I understand – the more amazed I am with how confusing it all USED TO seem. I suspect that the subject of brain surgery is pretty much the same way. Once you KNOW it, NOTHING is as bad as it used to seem.
So my PERSONAL philosophy (for anyone who’s interested) is this:
If you THINK that a question has been posted by a person who is “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” – take another look. Maybe they’re just having a hard time communicating. Some of us have more trouble in that area than others. Why not simply ask them, “What have you tried so far?” The length and depth of their response (if any) should help to clarify their intentions.
On the other hand, if you’re CONVINCED that a question has been posted by a person who is “stupid, ignorant, or lazy” – why not just walk away - and let them wither on the vine? Harassing or ridiculing them will not make them any less “stupid, ignorant, or lazy”. It’s pretty much the same thing as trying to educate another driver by leaning on your horn. It just doesn’t work, folks.
And (more-or-less) finally, this would probably be a good place to slide in something about the “Golden Rule” – but I’ve found that those who don’t already try to live by it are seldom influenced by having it quoted to them.
And (really) finally, if ANYONE wants to say that there are indeed incredibly stupid, ignorant, and lazy people in the world – then certainly I, for one, would offer a hearty “Amen”. On the other hand, if you want to argue that the best way to deal with them is through harassment and ridicule – then I think I’ll hold off on that one.
