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bendanator

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Hello Everyone,

I have recently started a new job and it turns out to be pretty heavy on the PLC's. The company uses about 6 different brands of PLC's and I have been doing ok at the job but I'm a little bit struggling to learn all this fast enough? Is there any online PLC classes/training that anyone would recommend? I have used PLC programs in the past to just troubleshoot now I'm being ask to write programs. I know this is a big opportunity to jump my career, I just want to succeed at it. Thanks
 
Hello Everyone,

I have recently started a new job and it turns out to be pretty heavy on the PLC's. The company uses about 6 different brands of PLC's and I have been doing ok at the job but I'm a little bit struggling to learn all this fast enough? Is there any online PLC classes/training that anyone would recommend? I have used PLC programs in the past to just troubleshoot now I'm being ask to write programs. I know this is a big opportunity to jump my career, I just want to succeed at it. Thanks

In my opinion, it would be hard to master 6 different brands of PLC. If you can select one or two of them to get training on, perhaps those with better local support, or better pricing, or some other criteria.

If you are doing mainly maintenance, an introductory training course is likely enough to help you out. Depending on how large the system is that you are being asked to program ... it could take several courses to be able to do a design.

Some of the technical sales people will go through the basics with you if you have specific questions, hoping to sell you more of their product later. That could help you choose one or two of them to concentrate on.

In my experience, working on a project is the only way to *REALLY* learn to program. So rather than a training course, perhaps getting a simulator would be more helpful for you? Then you can solve the programming problem on the PLC that you want to use, and do some basic testing at least. That should teach you quite a bit about programming :)
 
In my experience, working on a project is the only way to *REALLY* learn to program.

I agree 100%.

My two cents: getting a really good mentor helped the HECK out of me.

additionally, learn IEC-1131 will translate to most plc platforms.
 
If they're using 6 brands of PLCs for their process, they certainly don't have a clue about what they're doing. Skilled engineers spend entire careers on narrowly focused aspects of one single PLC platform (EX: You can do Allen Bradley servo motion for the next 50 years).
 
If they're using 6 brands of PLCs for their process, they certainly don't have a clue about what they're doing. Skilled engineers spend entire careers on narrowly focused aspects of one single PLC platform (EX: You can do Allen Bradley servo motion for the next 50 years).

???

If the OP has gotten a job on a manufacturing site, then having 6 different brands of PLC is almost certainly reflective of middle/upper management and the bean counters having more of a say in purchasing and projects than the engineers who should be making those decisions. Which means management have no clue what they're doing, but says very little about the engineers.

If the OP has got a job for a systems integrator, using 6 different brands of PLC just means they have a wide and varied client base, and at many of those clients, the reverse of the above is happening - the engineers are getting the final say on what PLC's they let in the door (which is how it should be), and so the OEM can comply or they can find another client.

In neither case are broad statements like "they certainly don't have a clue about what they're doing" or "Skilled engineers spend entire careers on narrowly focused aspects of one single PLC platform" remotely defensible.

I work for an OEM with quote a wide and varied client base. While we mostly use AB, if that's all we were prepared to use, we'd lose a good chunk of our business for no good reason. I would certainly like to think that I have at least half a clue about what I'm doing, and that I might be considered a "skilled engineer" despite being able to program a dozen different brands of PLC.


To the OP: if you want to learn (particularly AB), I would ideally recommend Ron Beaufort's boot camp. However I hear he's on the verge of retirement, and is passing the baton in some form or another to Phil Buchanan, who posted above.

Garry's website (that he linked above) contains a wide range of tutorials/examples/exercises etc and is another good place to visit.

I would also look at LogixPro from the learning pit. You're right that going from troubleshooting with PLC's to writing code for them is a huge learning curve, and that's a really good, really cheap way to get some hands-on experience writing and testing code.
 
If they're using 6 brands of PLCs for their process, they certainly don't have a clue about what they're doing. Skilled engineers spend entire careers on narrowly focused aspects of one single PLC platform (EX: You can do Allen Bradley servo motion for the next 50 years).

Maybe ..

We have PLC standards .. and purchasing insists on ignoring them. The only reason we don't have a dozen different kinds of PLC from various vendors (they supply what is cheapest this week) is because it ends up costing us downtime .. when we can't figure out how to fix them, or update them.

6 brands is certainly not the worst mess I've seen. But it could include several models from each brand .. so it may be worse than I think!

If you can choose one and put pressure on purchasing to JUST buy from vendors that offer that one, or JUST buy one brand for your projects ... it will simplify your life a *BUNCH*
 
One thing I would like to mention is that Simulators are just that. Some things a Simulator can't do and sometimes you have to write programming to accommodate the quirks of Simulators or different plcs. I worked for an independent contractor most of my life and had to learn whatever plc the customer was using. They were anything from the latest to obsolete and either popular or off-brand.
 
In my opinion, it would be hard to master 6 different brands of PLC.

I dont think they need to 'master' any of them... guessing the OP is not going to be a 'programmer' they will be support either engineering, maintenance or both, the last real job I had was using at least six different brands and the only thing it did was make me a much better troubleshooter

I think you need exposure to become the best you can be and it builds confidence, I can say when I first started many moons ago I was tossed onto nights and was told to fix anything that broke and I knew nothing and it made me a much better... "if it was built by man it can be fix by man"

I do agree with part, take one and learn it.... keep in mind EVERY PLC is the same, they take inputs and with the logic wrote they make outputs happen, they just do it a little different.

If you want to learn buy a used PLC on ebay and build a trainer and start programming or ask your work if you could borrow a stock PLC

Vlad Romanov said:
If they're using 6 brands of PLCs for their process, they certainly don't have a clue about what they're doing. Skilled engineers spend entire careers on narrowly focused aspects of one single PLC platform

I am so glad I did not listen to that 30 years ago.... that is so wrong any so many ways
 
Thanks everyone,

I should have mentioned that I am to learn programming cause there is not a engineer at this plant, and also they want to switch everything over to Allen Bradley(about 25-30 machines need to be changed over, I understand this will take years but is a great opportunity for me). Which is a plus for me cause I have the most experience with Allen Bradley. I have done simple programming with digital inputs and outputs but I have never programmed a PLC to VFD over Ethernet. I start to mess with it a bit and found out how to setup a Powerflex drive over the Ethernet, which was a lot easier then I thought it would be, but to make things more difficult they are wanting Allen Bradley PLC's with Yaskawa VDF's. I have no clue how to set this up over the Ethernet. Thanks again.
 
Will they let you take one home? I doubt you will have time at work but if you want to learn sounds like a great opportunity, I have never used Yaskawa but they have a great reputation so I would think they are not a pain to setup
 
???

If the OP has gotten a job on a manufacturing site, then having 6 different brands of PLC is almost certainly reflective of middle/upper management and the bean counters having more of a say in purchasing and projects than the engineers who should be making those decisions. Which means management have no clue what they're doing, but says very little about the engineers.
That was my point; management isn't thinking about the engineers & technicians who work at that site. They are buying equipment which is extremely difficult to support which ultimately leads to more downtime.

If the OP has got a job for a systems integrator, using 6 different brands of PLC just means they have a wide and varied client base, and at many of those clients, the reverse of the above is happening - the engineers are getting the final say on what PLC's they let in the door (which is how it should be), and so the OEM can comply or they can find another client.

In neither case are broad statements like "they certainly don't have a clue about what they're doing" or "Skilled engineers spend entire careers on narrowly focused aspects of one single PLC platform" remotely defensible.

I work for an OEM with quote a wide and varied client base. While we mostly use AB, if that's all we were prepared to use, we'd lose a good chunk of our business for no good reason. I would certainly like to think that I have at least half a clue about what I'm doing, and that I might be considered a "skilled engineer" despite being able to program a dozen different brands of PLC.
I disagree with that statement completely. We are knowledgeable enough in all platforms and can easily navigate from one to the other, but you can't call yourself an expert in everything. It simply isn't feasible due to time constraints.

On that same point, I think that there's plenty of work in any PLC platform; you can build a very successful consulting / systems integration firm if you specialize in one single platform; there's no reason to try and spread yourself thin across many of them when you can be exceptionally good in one.

In either case, that's just my opinion; I've seen many poor integrations which were sold as "best thing since sliced bread", hit the floor and had to be completely re-written because a salesman sold his team as experts in AB and they just migrated code from a PLC 500, VB or some other platform.



To elaborate some more:
I certainly think that as an engineer you should learn as much as possible & know a little bit of everything. However, as a manager or someone who's making a purchase of a piece of equipment, you need to standardize across a single site. There's no reason to have your team learn 6 platforms.

To the OP
My best advice would be to learn the basics of each platform. If you can go online with each processor, have a backup of all files and know the basics of PLC logic (not even sure what your code is written, but hopefully it's all ladder logic across the many platforms) you should be OK. From that point, you can troubleshoot and start learning about the advanced instructions and how they are integrated into your plant.

All the best,
Vlad
 
Thanks everyone,

I should have mentioned that I am to learn programming cause there is not a engineer at this plant, and also they want to switch everything over to Allen Bradley(about 25-30 machines need to be changed over, I understand this will take years but is a great opportunity for me). Which is a plus for me cause I have the most experience with Allen Bradley. I have done simple programming with digital inputs and outputs but I have never programmed a PLC to VFD over Ethernet. I start to mess with it a bit and found out how to setup a Powerflex drive over the Ethernet, which was a lot easier then I thought it would be, but to make things more difficult they are wanting Allen Bradley PLC's with Yaskawa VDF's. I have no clue how to set this up over the Ethernet. Thanks again.

You should work towards having as much information as possible to facilitate this migration. Make sure you have all PLC files, all the schematics, pictures of what's going where, documents outlining IO.

On the VFD, my guess is that Yaskawa would have an AOP for Allen Bradley which would integrate the same way as the PowerFlex series. That being said, if you're looking to buy new equipment, I'd push to get PowerFlex drives; I don't think that there's much of a cost savings in getting another brand.
 
I disagree with that statement completely. We are knowledgeable enough in all platforms and can easily navigate from one to the other, but you can't call yourself an expert in everything. It simply isn't feasible due to time constraints.
I never called myself an expert in everything, nor would I consider myself one. I'd consider myself an expert in a few specific areas, and a "skilled engineer" in a wide range of areas. Your statement that "skilled engineers spend entire careers on narrowly focused aspects of one single PLC platform" is blatantly untrue not just for me, but for the vast majority of those who frequent this forum, based on the extensive and broad range of knowledge I see every day. Ken Roach can give someone intricate detail on a 30-year-old Allen-Bradley PLC one minute, and then turn around and help me interpret a wireshark trace on a Control Logix the next, and then head off to help someone out with a Red Lion application, all before his morning coffee. Geospark will sit down and pen a 2,000 word post on just about any Allen-Bradley related topic you can think of, with enough technotes and cross references to keep you busy for hours. geniusintraining can help you out with parts and solutions for just about any combination of automation equipment you can throw at him. Phil Buchanan runs training courses on Allen-Bradley, Siemens, Omron, Wonderware and Mitsubishi, and has at least passing knowledge on many other brands besides. I'm sure that none of these people would consider themselves "experts in everything", but if we are to agree with your statement, then none of them are skilled engineers either.


To elaborate some more:
I certainly think that as an engineer you should learn as much as possible & know a little bit of everything. However, as a manager or someone who's making a purchase of a piece of equipment, you need to standardize across a single site. There's no reason to have your team learn 6 platforms.
Really?


No reason? At all?


You're right that if you're in the position of ordering equipment for a single site, you should standardise as much as you possibly can. But that's not the way things go, and so engineers need to be adaptable.


I personally can program PLC's and HMI's from Allen-Bradley, Siemens, Modicon, Schneider, Omron, Red Lion, Delta, Panasonic, Eaton, Automation Direct, Pilz, Mitsubishi, IFM, Sick, GE, Unitronics, ranging from the MS-DOS based Siemens S5 through to the most recent version of AB Logix Designer. I can develop SCADA systems in FTView, Wonderware, Citect, WinCC and Ignition. Sure, I'm not equally good at all of them, but I can at the very least get by in them all. And you know what? At my current employer, I have been at some point paid to work on every single one of those brands by our customers. If your employer is happy to tell customers "sorry, we don't have anyone that can help you with that, find someone else", then sure, I guess your employer has no reason to have their team learn 6 platforms. But if you're going to turn to my boss and suggest that my knowledge of more than one PLC brand is of no use to him, he'll laugh in your face.

Sure, there are roles where you only need one very narrow, but very in depth skill set. I'm sure that Tesla employs engineers who know more about battery technology than you or I could ever hope to know, but wouldn't know a VSD if it fell on their head. I'm sure that there are OEMs who develop a very specific type of machine using a very specific type of platform and have engineers who know that specific platform inside and out, but have very little experience outside it. But my observation would be, that's the exception, not the rule. Even within a factory that is exclusively, say, AB, an engineer would be very little use to the company if all they knew was servo motion. They'd most likely be expected to be highly competent across PLC programming on RSLogix 5, RSLogix 500, RSLogix 5000, and in ladder, FBD and ST. They'd be expected to be competent with FTView and PanelView Plus applications. If the site used a different SCADA platform, they'd be expected to be competent across that as well. They'd need to know VFD's, networking (ethernet, devicenet, controlnet, RIO, DH+...), safety systems, and sensors. And that, again, is a site with just AB. The reality is, there are precious few sites that have managed to keep the bean counters in line well enough to have the luxury of only having one brand to deal with. For the rest - including the site the OP is working at - the more areas you're "skilled" in, the more valuable you are as an employee. And if you work for a small OEM like me, well, you simply do not have the luxury of specialising in one aspect of one platform and ignoring the rest of the field.
 
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