Further my Education What to do

Hello, I have a question on furthering my education and what you guys think would prepare me for the future in automation. I have a 2yr diploma in mechatronics and have really been getting into plc programming, networking, and HMI. The thing is i am just a maintenance mechanic and very young. I am having trouble getting a job where i can breathe this stuff in and out. I would like to go back to school and then work for a packaging machine builder someday. Any input is much apreciated.

I too started in maintenance.

I too was very hungry to learn automation.

The local community college taught very basic plc knowledge, not enough to feed my hunger so I purchased a used AB Micrologix 1000 and played with it endless hours in the basement.

I read everything I could read, including threads on this forum.

They gave me a simple plc project at work and it turned out pretty good, I was doing maintenance 90% of the time and programming/wiring panels 10% of the time.

Eventually I became good enough to get a job with an oem as their plc programmer.

It did not happen overnight, but with a lot of work and study it did happen.

Hartness,

I went to tech school right out of high school. I job jumped a couple of times until I ended up as an electrician at a battery making plant. I spent 1.5 years there, not really programming PLC's, but troubleshooting lines with them. Left there for my present employer. I was basically a maintenance man here too, but had a little more freedom. We troubleshoot using PLC's every day, and get to do small programming jobs. After 5 years, it wasn't enough for me, so I decided to return to school. I am currently in the middle of working on an EE degree. The one thing I have found is that almost nothing about an EE degree has to do with PLC programming or systems networking and the like. However, it's great to be learning, (Calculus is hard, but it is amazing what you can do with it), and it has led to a promotion for me. I am not an engineer yet title wise, but I program PLC's, HMI's and lead projects all the time. Basically, I'm getting the degree paid for, doing engineering work for maintenance pay, and getting some awesome experience. Therefore, I don't regret the decision to go back at all. When I complete my degree, the title and pay will come, and I'll have a few years experience already. Talk to your employer and see if they will work with you. If they won't, find a new employer who will. It's been my experience that if you show the drive and dedication, it will pay off. As for me, I have finals next week, and need to study. Good luck no matter what you decide.

Russ

Thanks for the replys, I plan on purchasing a micrologix 1500 and a panel view 600 and set this up on an ethernet network. I was thinking about the EE Degree but through my research i too saw that not much for plcs and networking.

Most of the EE's I know do not do PLC's.



When I went to tech school my PLC class was simple. There is a SLC 100, there is a computer. If you can get the blame thing to do anything, good luck. I spent the rest of that quarter challenging myself with small control problems. I got an A for the course. No instruction.



First job. Simple PLC's (Selectron) and the company was using turn signal flashers to flash lights. I learned enough German to figure out how the Selectron worked, then programmed the flashing light. That got attention. I then got to work in Austria, building assembly machines.



Next job. Back to AB. I was fortunate enough to have a boss that believed in the power of PLC's. Many more hours turned into a lot of great experience. Solved lots of issues. Took on new projects from scratch. For the first time, that company did not contract out programming work.



Now, I'm back at the school I started in. Only now I have several great labs to work out of, and the biggest hurdle is to get the students interested.



Odd but true. PLC's are now exactly where networking PC's was about fifteen years ago. Its easy to find the basics, in a course or two, but to learn advanced PLC programming in a technical institution is almost impossible. Many engineers are convinced that those "pesky little machines" are not worth their time. Much the same as PC's were back when the main frame computers ruled the computing world. I actually had a professor tell me that learning PC's was a waste of time. "FORTRAN and COBOL are the only lauguages you need, son." Guess who needs a job now?

plchacker said:

I actually had a professor tell me that learning PC's was a waste of time. "FORTRAN and COBOL are the only lauguages you need, son." Guess who needs a job now?

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You'd be surprised what the going rate for a FORTRAN or COBOL programmer is right now. A lot of institutions didn't quite kept up with times and are now in need of someone that understands these.
It's not ideal and it will eventually be a dead language... but last I checked (this year) there were still jobs for this.

What I find though is that working with PLC's jobs exist but the salaries aren't worth it compared to other engineering jobs. Most companies expect to pay a technician salary to a PLC programmer instead of an engineer's salary.

Case in point was the company I worked before this job... the guy specifying cables or instruments (which apart from one or two applications isn't incredibly hard) was on 10% more than me... that had to design, program and ensure some safety into the system.

I would love to program PLC's for a living, it's just finding a company that matches the salary and expectations of how one is to be treated that is the problem.

Hartness said:

Thanks for the replys, I plan on purchasing a micrologix 1500 and a panel view 600 and set this up on an ethernet network. I was thinking about the EE Degree but through my research i too saw that not much for plcs and networking.

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Don't purchase anything until you research the cost of software!!!
I'm not exactly sure what RSL500 Lite can and can't do with the Micrologix1500 but the FactoryTalkView software required for the PV programming is not cheap.

Don't buy a micrologix.

Go buy the software from thelearningpit.com. It nearly perfectly emulates RSLogix 500, has simulators so you can write programs, and is only $30 or so.

After that, there are some great low cost options. A Siemens Logo! kit can be had for a few hundred dollars and can get you into the Siemens world.

You will need to learn on your own for a little while.

I got lucky (hah!) and took a job with a very small OEM and I did EVERYTHING for the first couple years. Purchasing, design, programming, panel build, etc.

Just my opinion - but a smaller company will require you to do more and expose you to more. They aren't always the best jobs, though, and the larger companies will usually want someone with specific experience.

When it comes to programming, though, most of it carries from one PLC to the other. It is only a matter of learning how they are structured and where things are stored in memory.

Rson said:

Don't buy a micrologix.

Go buy the software from thelearningpit.com. It nearly perfectly emulates RSLogix 500, has simulators so you can write programs, and is only $30 or so.

After that, there are some great low cost options. A Siemens Logo! kit can be had for a few hundred dollars and can get you into the Siemens world.

You will need to learn on your own for a little while.

I got lucky (hah!) and took a job with a very small OEM and I did EVERYTHING for the first couple years. Purchasing, design, programming, panel build, etc.

Just my opinion - but a smaller company will require you to do more and expose you to more. They aren't always the best jobs, though, and the larger companies will usually want someone with specific experience.

When it comes to programming, though, most of it carries from one PLC to the other. It is only a matter of learning how they are structured and where things are stored in memory.

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Siemens logo is not the way to go if you want to be taken seriously. I wouldn't hire someone to work on Siemens PLC's if their experience is solely on the logo.
In the States might be hard to get used S7-1200's, but Siemens is dead keen in entering that market and I'm sure you could contact them and get some assistance in learning their platform.

For the time being I would probably download Codesys and use that platform (which simulates on your computer for free), but since you are in the States do keep up with the Rockwell stuff as that's the most used brand and Codesys is very different from the Rockwell philosophy of PLC programming.

Rson said:

Don't buy a micrologix.

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12 years ago when this thread was started the MicroLogix was great... I still think it is and my God I hope Hartness has learned how to program

cardosocea said:

Siemens logo is not the way to go if you want to be taken seriously. I wouldn't hire someone to work on Siemens PLC's if their experience is solely on the logo.
In the States might be hard to get used S7-1200's, but Siemens is dead keen in entering that market and I'm sure you could contact them and get some assistance in learning their platform.

Click to expand...

I agree unless I owned a landscaping company and needed someone for the sprinklers... the 1200 is not much more and its a real PLC

And we have lots of 1200's on ebay https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...at=0&LH_ItemCondition=3000&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

I guess I didn't look at the date.

Yes, 12 years ago a micrologix would have been the way to go!

I started out as a maintenance technician too. I was never given the opportunity to work with PLCs despite how much I enjoyed that part of my coursework. What it came down to for me was self learning and taking risks. As a maintenance tech i lived by the motto "Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness rather than to ask for permission." Working on nights, I had no supervision and had to make some tough calls because my boss hated getting woke up in the middle of the night, but it was protocol to let him know no matter what.
First day after Christmas shutdown. One of the other techs didn't really know what they were doing and instead of backing up a program onto the server, he downloaded an earlier version that was outdated and there was a lot of new updates that the machine had, so it was unusable and did not function other than turning on. I let my boss know what the issue was. The parts that went through that station were able to be completed with manual tools since it was just an assembly build and check station. But it slowed down the line immensely.
My boss said don't worry about it and the automation engineer would deal with it in the morning. I didn't listen. 3.5 hours later into my 12 hour shift, I reprogrammed for the new equipment and verified that it was correct with operators, team leaders, and even got a pat on the back from my boss's boss. From then on, I received most of all the programming projects for our department. I told my boss the direction I wanted my career to be in and he assisted me by sending me to HMI training as well.

My advice is that you have to prove yourself in some way. If you want to move up within your company. Discuss the direction you want to go with your superior. He may can get you training. I also recommend Paul Lynn's courses on Udemy that give a certificate of completion. This will show that you want to learn and the path that you're advancing toward to future employers. On sales, you can get the courses for $10 a piece. He has 4 courses that are mainly AB and also a Siemens course he just released.
Get some software. I know RSLogix500 is unsupported now, but you can get the software and the simulator still.
Once you have played with multiple technologies, write a program and simulate it. Learn Wonderware or AdvanceHMI and have something that employers can interact with. Document it so clearly that the HR lady can even understand it! But never stop learning on your own. It doesn't have to be formal education but a Bachelor's Degree will help. I'm working on mine at the moment and plan to double into Computer Engineering after Electrical Engineering myself.