OT-Wellpump problems on a Sunday morning. HELP!

Mine was at the end of over 90' of pipe. I pulled it myself by hand not expecting that much pipe. The water table was only 12' below ground at that time. It took every bit of strength to get enough of it out that I could take a break. After I had it out, I needed a nap before installing the new one.

5 years later that one got zapped by a lightning strike, so I pulled it again, but this time I rigged up a way to hold the progress as I pulled it out so I could take more breaks. I also had installed a torque arrestor and cut off about 10' of the pipe, both of those things took away some of the effort.

I am still grateful for my own well every day I spend working on public water systems. A few hundred for a new pump every five years and dealing with heat tape and pressure switches, frozen lines, etc...still better that what I see at most municipalities.

Disconnect the power to the pump and inspect the pressure switch contacts.
if there is trash in them that can cause an issue.

also get an emery board and file the contacts. I had both issues several years ago and fix the pump that way, it ran for 5 years before the pressure switch gave out.
the pump is still running.

james

g.mccormick said:

If I had ever done this, and I hand an extra set of hands, I would do it myself.

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I can do just about anything and I have done just about everything once....

I pull my first pump because the check valve went bad and we could not get a truck to it without taking down a wall and fence, we setup a rim on a axle to pull it over... 250ft later we were whooped and replaced the valve... about two months later the pump failed, we knew what we were in for so we set it up and did it again but this time because the check valve was good we were pulling 250ft of water, at that time I said that would be my last and I would never do it again

James Mcquade said:

Disconnect the power to the pump and inspect the pressure switch contacts.
if there is trash in them that can cause an issue.

also get an emery board and file the contacts. I had both issues several years ago and fix the pump that way, it ran for 5 years before the pressure switch gave out.
the pump is still running.

james

Click to expand...

I had verified power into "control box"/out of pressure switch. The power is going down the well pipe, water is just not coming out.

GaryS said:

First the 5 amp load on the 2 power legs doesn't really tell us much we would need to know what the name plate FLA for that pump is 5 amps at 240V would be about 1,200 W about 1.5 hp. No current on the cap leg would lead me to believe the motor started successfully and is running up to speed the cap is only needed to start the motor you can disconnect the cap after the motor is up to speed. With a cap start motor there in no centrifugal switch rarely are they used in submersible pump in fact I have never seen one. I have seen the impeller come off the motor shaft, also the check valve just above the motor may have failed to open that would give you full or overload on the motor with no output flow.
As for pulling the pump that not to bad they have machine to do that
if you replace the pump replace the wires and heck valves as well you don't want to have to do it again.

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I believe the motor is a cap start cap run. I guess it uses the same cap for run and start windings as only one is in the box.

Regardless, I should be seeing the pump out of the hole this afternoon.

Maybe I missed it, but how deep is your well?

I helped my neighbor and his kid pull his up, all 450' of it. Junior pulled the pipe and T-handle up the road while the two of us took turns pulling straight up or around the bend.

My wife and I pulled ours up at 110'.

You would need to make a T-handle that screws into the pitless adapter but other than that it's not complicated, just labor-intensive. Too bad there wasn't someone local that was familiar with them to give you a hand.

Good luck!

It’s unusual for a submersible to use a centrifugal switch because if it goes bad, you must pull the pump, which is expensive. That’s why they usually use a Potential Relay in the control box to decide when to switch out the cap. The good news is, you can replace the cap fairly easily and if that’s it, you don’t have to pull the pump. I’m not hopeful though. Usually if the cap is bad, you can see it right away and sometimes the cap goes bad BECSUSE the centrifugal switch is stuck.

Good luck.

KB1GNI said:

Maybe I missed it, but how deep is your well?

I helped my neighbor and his kid pull his up, all 450' of it. Junior pulled the pipe and T-handle up the road while the two of us took turns pulling straight up or around the bend.

My wife and I pulled ours up at 110'.

You would need to make a T-handle that screws into the pitless adapter but other than that it's not complicated, just labor-intensive. Too bad there wasn't someone local that was familiar with them to give you a hand.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

I don't actually know how deep it is. I'm not original owner. I think it may be around 80ish feet though.

jraef said:

It’s unusual for a submersible to use a centrifugal switch because if it goes bad, you must pull the pump, which is expensive. That’s why they usually use a Potential Relay in the control box to decide when to switch out the cap. The good news is, you can replace the cap fairly easily and if that’s it, you don’t have to pull the pump. I’m not hopeful though. Usually if the cap is bad, you can see it right away and sometimes the cap goes bad BECSUSE the centrifugal switch is stuck.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

There is definitely not a potential relay in the box with the cap. Would it make sense if it is a cap start cap run motor that it would use the same cap and three wires for running at start? The motor would then have the switch to switch out the start winding. IDK exactly what it is, but sorta confusing. Hopefully I can find out more once it's pulled.

While you've got the pump out would be a golden opportunity to drop a weight on the end of some twine down the hole to find out what the total depth as well as the static level is.

80' should be a piece of cake to pull up.

I have pulled several wells with different experiences in each...

My old house 280Ft - got some exercise that day - owed a friend for his help

My new house - 70Ft - that was out in two minutes

My dad's house - 150Ft of hard steel pipe. That was a miserable experience. It is now plastic.

Watch the well guy and learn. You will probably see him screw a pipe/tool with a threaded fitting on the end into the pitless adapter. Take note of the thread sizes and the tool length so you can make one yourself - if you wish.

While it's out, drop some string with a floating ball (or something) on the end to measure how far down the water level is. Then drop a string with a weight to find the overall depth of the well.... just good things to know about your well.

Make sure the well guy looks over the whole setup: wire insulation looks good everywhere. Cable Guards adequately spaced. Torque arrestor in place and in good condition. Emergency pull rope in good condition.

Well? This thread has been very interesting. Do you have any updates?

Yes. I will make a better update later, but we have water. The issue makes more sense now too.

Here is the more complete update.

First off, I will say that after seeing it done once, I will for sure do it myself next time and save a bunch of money. That is the price you pay for not having the ability to do it yourself (either a shortage of knowledge, talent, time, materials, etc).

Secondly. The biggest issue that the guy faced was getting the pitless adapter loose. My well does not have the type that slides into a receiver. My adapter had an extension that screws out against the opposite wall of the casing and forces the sealing side tight against the casing wall. This takes a type of tool that for some reason the guy didn't have and instead went to lowes to buy conduit to make his own. He was mentioning the tool is $150 bucks and he thought that was stupid (I don't think he values his time very much).
Here is a link to the style of adapter that I have.
https://www.merrillmfg.com/shop/pitless-units-kits-and-adapters/smck-pitless-kit
You can see the the adapter has a pull pipe always connected that is supported by the top of the casing. This appears to be called a "clear well" adapter, since once it is pulled out with pump there is nothing sticking in the casing.

Once Well-Guy (WG) got that loosened with his homemade adapter, we pulled the pump.... And found that the issue was the riser pipe had come disconnected about 1/3 of the way up at a check valve. So that is why electrical readings showed the pump running, but no water was getting to the house. The original riser pipe had 2 check valves inline, used 1.25" poly, and had a rope safety line. It is likely the pump is fine (and I have it for a spare), but since we pulled it, we replaced it.

Original pump:
The original pump has a Pentek P43T0005A2 motor on it. I think it is a cap start cap run motor? It is 3 wires. I have attached a picture.


New Pump:
At first glance I was not thrilled to see a Flowise (not grundfos like told) pump. http://flowisewater.com/sseries.html . The pump does have a Grundfos motor on it though. But, the motor is 2wire!!! After arguing a bit that a 3 wire is better due to not having a cap and switch in the motor, I agreed that it is fine (rock - ME - hardplace).
This motor is actually a RSIR (resistance start induction run) motor, so it has no need for a cap but does have a centrifugal switch. I never knew such a beast existed. Here is the specs from Grundfos.

https://product-selection.grundfos....&productnumber=79952102&replacementtype=quick


Installing new pump:
A few things that i noticed/questioned but I had no other choice.
1. WG did not install a seperate check valve in the riser, "You don't need it, the one in the pump will never fail". Ok again ROCK-ME-HARDPLACE. Besides there is a check valve at my tank and the previous issue was a connection failure at the check valve.
2. WG did not install a safety line. "You don't need it the way I tape the electrical cords". Honestly I would say that we did tape the **** out of the cords. The previous pump was pulled up by the wires so should be good.

The reinstall went super easy other than us miscounting the riser pipe length at first and hitting bottom. I now know how/what this involves and it's no issue to do it in the future. I may try and find a cheap/used adapter wrench to keep on hand though.

While the casing was clear, I zip-tied a wrench onto a 100' tape and measured the well:
74 feet from bottom of well to top of casing.
15ft from top of casing to water level (static level on that day, I'm sure it moves).
We set the pump around 65feet or so.

Thanks for the followup. Yep - it's all pretty simple with a little bit of knowledge.

I have never seen a pitless adapter like that. Good to be aware of - thanks for the link with pics. (Not sure I see much value in it - the dovetail ones do just fine)

I wouldn't worry about the two wire.

I've had a check valve get stuck with debris and cause the pump to trip, so I wouldn't have put an extra one in the well. If you want an extra, inside the house at the tank suffices.

No safety rope - <gulp>