Step7 Classic or TIA Portal v13?

Manglemender

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This is a question for Siemens Step7 Programmers.

I'm interested to know how many of you have now taken the leap to using TIA portal and how many are still avoiding it.

If you are using TIA Portal what advantages/disadvantages do you encounter?

If you are sticking with Step7 Classic, what is holding you back from TIA Portal?

We have a new project on the go that must be Siemens PLC and drives (no motion control) but the programming tools are not specified so we must decide the best/most appropriate route for the project.

A recent project done with Step7 Classic and WinCCFlex2008 as a replica of a previous machine was problematic because you cannot buy HMIs for WinCCFlex except as a spare part at exorbitant prices.

Nick
 
Hello,

We still work 99,9% in Simatic. In the process industry you cannot migrate to portal just like that, that would be a gigantic risk. We work with Wonderware Scada and S7-300 and 400 PLC's, so we are not forced to use Tia portal because we don't use HMI panels from Siemens for our projects.

In a previous company I have used portal and at that moment (version 12) was a disaster.
I don't like the interface as well. I'm pretty frustrated after a while with those docked windows.
The speed of the software is my biggest frustration point, especially in VMWare's.

So, for me, Simatic is still my favoriete Siemens soft :D.

I think the software was still in early beta stages when they released it on the market, I'm not sure if that was a smart move from Siemens. I've never seen other brands take such risks and issues in their software...
Some day, Portal will take over... I hope that day is still far away and by then the software is stable and improved in its interface.

Kind regards,
G


This is a question for Siemens Step7 Programmers.

I'm interested to know how many of you have now taken the leap to using TIA portal and how many are still avoiding it.

If you are using TIA Portal what advantages/disadvantages do you encounter?

If you are sticking with Step7 Classic, what is holding you back from TIA Portal?

We have a new project on the go that must be Siemens PLC and drives (no motion control) but the programming tools are not specified so we must decide the best/most appropriate route for the project.

A recent project done with Step7 Classic and WinCCFlex2008 as a replica of a previous machine was problematic because you cannot buy HMIs for WinCCFlex except as a spare part at exorbitant prices.

Nick
 
Last edited:
I have to disagree with Combo here. Ive been using TIA Portal for years now and it is a massive improvement over Step 7 classic. I feel like tearing my hair out everytime i have to use the old software, i find the newer interface and integration of wincc and drives so much easier. Probably one of the main improvements is the way tags are dealt with. In the old version you had to add spares in data blocks because the addition of one bit in the middle of a block would shift all of the addresses. Then you had to go through the program and change everything because all of the addresses were shifted. All tags are automatically updated in TIA, so no more of this. Also you can save the program with blocks whose addresses haven't been filled in, no more entering placeholder bits just to save your program. Also, you can drag and drop tags, copy/paste easily from excel, etc.

On the downside, TIA V13 does seem to run pretty slowly when compared to the older software. Best to have a brand new laptop when working with it.
 
Hi!

The change from Simatic Manager to TIA was horrible, especially in the first 3 versions. Now we are doing simpler projects in TIA to get to know the software (and hardware).

This year, we sell Siemens for about 25% of our HMI and S7 1200 for about 25% of our PLC's which we all program in TIA.

The rest is S7 300 and 300F which we still do in Simatic Manager.

I love the old software, just because I know where to find about anything. TIA is starting to grow on me, later versions are much better. Just make sure you got the power to run it, I have said it before, but a SSD is an absolute must when working with TIA, well worth the money.

For us it is not only preference, but also hardware and investment. We have 4 guys developing, and about 5 guys out in the field. All of them will need both packages up-to-date to be able to service our entire portfolio. A significant price tag every year.
 
I am just starting TIA. I am using WinAC and the the first few versions did not support it. We sold a machine to a customer and he was using TIA for everything so I thought it would be a good first step with a customer that has a head start on me. I have everything on order for the project but have not started it yet. My plan is to do it first then transition future machines over. This past week we sold another machine that I am going to with the old software on. Just because I don't know how much trouble I will have.
 
Most of what I have to say has probably already been said above, but i'm tossing my two cents in anyway. Long story short: I love the new stuff, but it might need some time to grow on you.

Personally, I'm a fan of the idea of the new software. It fixes most of the complaints I've had of Simatic Manager. A lot of them are simple things: being able to save your ladder code even if the block has an error, being able to do indirect addressing in ladder (with the new CPU's only), or being to copy/paste from a DB to excel. I especially like the new HW/network editor. It cleans up safety programming a bit as well. As a whole, the software shows really well to a newbie, but it can a bit of a shock for someone who already knows what they are doing.

It definitely still has its gotchas, though. V11 and V12 were pretty buggy, but the most current version (V13 SP1) is a lot better. A lot of the program works differently while you are online with anything (say for monitoring code): you can't edit the HW config of any device in the project if you are online with even one of them. Unfortunately, some of the nice features are for the newer processors only; if you use S7 V13 for the 300's or 400's, you get to use the new shiny GUI, but the CPU only has the same features it had before. It also doesn't support multi-user environments as well as SImatic Manager

The things people said about needing a newish PC are probably true. Get plenty of ram, a high res screen, and DEFINTELY get an SSD. Portal only runs as one process, so the jump from 2 cores to 4 cores won't add much.

In my opinion, the transition from WinCC Flex (and multipanels) to WInCC V13 (and comfort panels) is pretty small. The buttons are almost entirely in the same place, and the project migration is pretty straightforward. The main gotcha is the switch from 4:3 to 16:9 resolutions, so you might need to adjust your graphics.

On the PLC side, the transition is less smooth, especially if you are a power programmer. The buttons are all shuffled around in the editors. If you are also migrating from a 300 to a 1500, a lot of the logic can stay, but most of the system calls and communications will need to be rewritten. The focus goes away from absolute addresses and to symbols/tags. Data types become very important, it is essentially a paradigm shift. It took me a while to really wrap my brain around it, but you'll have to get used to treating the data as a specific type, and not just a bunch of bits you can manipulate.

There are a few features that Portal doesn't support yet, so if you're using these you definitely need to stick with Simatic Manager for now. Portal doesn't support the 300 tecnology CPUs or 400H. Portal doesn't have P-Diag or Proagent, which has been a showstopper on a few projects I've done recently; it also doesn't have CFC yet. THe G120 drive configuration has been included, but for S120 drives you still need starter. On the WinCC side, it doesn't support custom addons anymore, although I'm hoping that will be added back eventually.
 
Thanks everyone for your responses.

I haven't written much software myself in the last 3 years as my role is now project manager. I am very familiar with Step7 Classic but my first impressions of TIA Portal, at V10.5, were extremely unfavourable.

We have already shipped one machine with an S7 1500 CPU and D445 motion controller. A second machine is now being built with as S7 1500 CPU and Parker drive system. So there is already change in the wind.

I remember well the introduction of Step7 and how poor early versions were in comparision to the S5 that I knew and loved. It is no surprise to me that Siemens released incomplete and buggy software to its' users for beta test - as I recall, the original distribution didn't actually work without a patch. Step7 came of age about version 5.1 and eventually we all learned to use it to great advantage. I'm sure that eventually programmers will come to love TIA portal and the features it brings.

If I could buy an MP277 or MP377 then I wouldn't consider TIA portal for this project and Siemens know this which is why they are discontinued except as a spare part.

As for the processing power requirement, Siemens have always produced software that needed more power than was commonly available; I remember an old DOS program for configuring the early master drives that you could only really get to work in a RAM disk.

Once again, thanks for the responses.

Nick
 
TIA is the future, but depending on your situation, the future is a long way off.
If you are a new facility go TIA.
If you are an old facility, and all your hardware is supported with TIA go TIA.
But if you are in an older facility with hardware that is not supported by TIA stay with the old Step 7. Unless you have the budget to upgrade the old stuff.
 
Thanks everyone for your responses.

I haven't written much software myself in the last 3 years as my role is now project manager. I am very familiar with Step7 Classic but my first impressions of TIA Portal, at V10.5, were extremely unfavourable.

Once again, thanks for the responses.

Nick

TIA V10 and V11 were ridiculous. It was like we (the user) were paying premium to be part of the alfa and beta testing. V12 was much better, V13 is good.
 
Step7 Classic or TIA Portal v13?
Step7 Classic and TIA Portal v14 :)
for a new project I bought 15" MP377 panels at a price of 4700 euros o_O (TP1500 3000 euros ...)
S7-1200 v4 and S7-1500 v1.8 use only for testing.
Wait v14 (for Windows 10) and hardware v5/v2.
 
TIA is the future, but depending on your situation, the future is a long way off.
If you are a new facility go TIA.
If you are an old facility, and all your hardware is supported with TIA go TIA.
But if you are in an older facility with hardware that is not supported by TIA stay with the old Step 7. Unless you have the budget to upgrade the old stuff.

That is a really great point I forgot to mention. Portal theoretically supports hardware that was active in 2007 and onwards. I heard that even Siemens and its distributors had to put a lot of money into upgrading their training/demo racks just to get them Portal compatible.
 
I have been using TIA v13 SP1 for my last couple projects with s7-1200's.

There are definitely still some bugs in the software, but overall it works pretty well. I would recommend using probably two monitors because theres a lot going on.

Probably my biggest gripe with TIA is that the help files SUCK!

In my experience in S7 Manager if your unsure about something, you cursor over it and hit F1, and your answer is therein.

Apparently the help file guy wasnt on board for TIA because its seriously lacking!
 

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