PLC REset n speed of machine

Hello all friends form PLC .net
i m working on a machine which is useing Siemens s7-400cpu412-2dp,
the problem is that PET bottle manufaturing machine. the PLC program is design to run machine on 4600 bottle/ hour, but we discussed the machine vendor SIDLE to incresae the production up to 5600 bottle/hour, for that reason the vendor give us a passward which we feed to our HMI configuration , we do not change any thing except feeding that passward to HMi by doing this machine able to run on 5600 B/H, automatically, i m unable to understand how does it works,does this passward contain some sort of codes ? that it makes the machine to run on new production speed, but when ever we reset the PLC machine automatically goes to its actual speed of production 4600 B/H, so we need again n again passward to get the 5600B/H speed, i want to know the reason behind this ??? is it posible that if we copy the modified program throuh PG ( Power PG) and if we need to reset that PLC and then downlaod that copy of modified program to PLC, would this Program works on 5600B/H ? or we need the passward even that copy of program ?

More than likely when you enter the password into the HMI you are enabling a bit. They are using this bit to either enable a different section of logic in the program to allow the machine to run at 5600 b/h or they are using this bit to change certain values in the program. I would guess they are using it to change certain values.

When you say “reset” the PLC, I’m not sure if you are referring to cycling the power to the PLC or taking the PLC out of run mode. If you are referring to cycling the power it is because this ‘bit’ isn’t in the retentive memory section of the PLC. If when you say “reset” you are referring to taking the PLC out of run mode it is because the PLC will clear the memory, hence clearing your bit.

I’d be interested in knowing if you had to pay the manufacture any money for the password to unlock the 5600 b/h.

As you say, the PLC program is designed to run at the lower speed. You need to ask for the program to be designed to run at the higher speed. What does the specification/contract say ?

dear tark n sim, its a one time purhase contract, they provide evey service after service charges, i asked all of u is ti possible thati copy modifes program after feedign the passward now machine is able to run at 5600B/H, n if i need to reset the PLC ( through PLC key)the i download that copied program ,will machine run at 5600 B/H or not? or do i need to modify the PLC program to make it able to run at 5600B/h, why al; the time after resetting the memorey of PLC this passward become inactive?

why al; the time after resetting the memorey of PLC this passward become inactive?

Click to expand...

I guess it's because Sidel are a very thorough machine manufacturer. You purchased from them a 4600 b/h machine, you paid the cost of a 4600 b/h machine, and you received a 4600 b/h machine. Now you want a 5600 b/h machine. Well, you could go and buy a new 5600 b/h machine, but that would be very expensive. Fortunately your original supplier Sidel had built that increase in performance in to the machine already. If you had asked for a 5600 b/h machine at the beginning you would have probably received exactly the same equipment, but it would have run at 5600 b/h. And you would have had to pay more for it. So now, each time you request Sidel to make their 4600 b/h machine run at 5600 b/h they make a service charge, and supply you with a method for making the 4600 b/h machine faster.

Why don't they make it permanent? Well, I think that's just common sense. If you could get a 5600 b/h machine by buying a 4600 b/h machine (or a 3600 or a 2600) plus the cost of a single service call, who would ever buy a 5600 b/h machine?

I'm sure there may be ways around Sidel's software, but that's the explanation.

Ken

dear respectrable friends,

i m still uncomfortable with ur comments, ok i accept that we bought mahien for 4600 but after paying them they normally providw us apassward to increase the speed up to 5600 this means this machine is able run at this speed, ok what we do onlyt jyst feed the passward to HIM cong file after that mahine automaticaly get increment in speed, if i copy this program n reset the memory of plc n then download coiped program will thisa machine run on 5600B/H or not jut tell me this?
lloking forward ur oinpoint reply thanks.

Would you have more than 1 machine perchance ?

You may find that your supplier has also protected the processor from access. I don't think you have a copy of the HMI application or the PLC software - I would be very careful about reseting processors etc .

I don't see why you have a problem - the password they gave you is not time limited , you are just required to input again if you power down the processor -

hi there

possiblitiy is the value 4600 is stored in some DB as an initial value.So when ever PLC is stoped and reset it picks up that initial value.

thnaks 10base n manmee, no v r consistant buyer of sidle machines cuz these r economicaln fast n easy to operate, i have every thing like STEP 7V 7.3, Protoll lite.6.002 bak of program etc, n above all i have Power PG which i normally use top do troulesooting ,
ok manmee if 4600 B/H speed is presnet in some wgere else DB then how clould that passward change this 4600 B/H to 5600B/ howwwwwwwwwwwww? is there any logical reason with out changig Laddder prgramm how it does it heppens? its really surparisingggggggg me,

It doesn't matter if you have a mainframe - if the processor is protected against access - then there is no way you will get access .


However you mention that you have a backup of the software , in this case it should be a five minute job to find out what needs to be changed .
If you can't see it , then frankly , I would advise you not to mess with it - you will have problems .
If you were to give an undertaking that you have the necessary permission from the OEM - then by all means post the archive , and I'll tell you what to do .

Thanks 10BaseT , although the machine supplier does not wiling to help out in this regards even we discused them to make it permenent, so we decide to do it by our self, its our machine n v r fully authorise to do what ever v think is best for us, any how u can fell the rude behaviour of OEM manufaturers, so as far as my side i m fully autorise to do what i think is better for plant to save this cost, 10BaseT u asked me (If you were to give an undertaking that you have the necessary permission from the OEM - then by all means post the archive , and I'll tell you what to do . i kindly request u to tell me the five minute job procedure, i assure u this is very valid legal assignmentn it will also enhance my understading with these kind of problems,

thanks to all who share there comments n experince.

OK , open up the protool archive (in the TDOP folder if not integrated) - open the screens until you find the one that has the password entry on it , and double click that entry to bring up the properties .

do that bit first and post your results

Parko,
upload the program from PLC(or if you have the program on the computer, download to PLC replacing the existing one)than do the change and download again back. I think it will work.

Danilo

thanks 10baseT, wel can u define in little bit brief what is TODP folder, u mean to open Protool in step or run as other software (online or offline)i have Protool as oher software, so should i run it online n go to project n do wjat u say or tell me like as i m student, ur comments r welcome

thanks any way samoil where should i change can dfine teh location ? i have backup of program.

OK, forget for one minute any legality or ownership issues. I'm just slightly wary about making software changes to a machine which none of us (expect Parco) has seen or understands.

If Parco is successful in changing 4600 to 5600 at some point, why not 7600? Why not 8600, 9600 ... etc? At what point is the mechanical design and the electronic control going to start to part company? Are there other consequences of running the machine at increased speeds which we are unaware of? Almost certainly yes.

Regards

Ken