Allen-Bradley PC based

rblunt · Jul 25, 2019

I'm looking to cut costs on a machine.

I was thinking of using Ignition HMI on a Panel PC with Rockwell Softlogix for the PLC. Is this viable? I have 2 hydraulic axis to control via Point I/O cards.

I'm just a little awestruck with the price for a 7" PanelView not to mention the price tag for a Compactlogix.

Our standard is Beckhoff, which with a VB.NET HMI costs considerably less but obviously lots of people want AB.

AustralIan · Jul 25, 2019

If they want AB, they also want to pay more for it. No dramas there, just give them what they want. I would use a CPLX over softlogix though. Do they even still do softlogix?
I always got the feeling it was more of a "the customer demanded this so we made this" product, rather than a "this is AB" product. I recall it computes things slightly differently to the CompactLogix, so if you test in one you can't guarantee it will work in the other. It may have been a bug that was fixed, but still they are different code bases as one is for Windows and one is for CXworks.

BlueAltezza · Jul 25, 2019

AustralIan said:
If they want AB, they also want to pay more for it.

This.

Make the customer pay for it - they'll either say no thanks and be fine with your standard offering, or pay the premium.
Always good to offer options - bottom line is you still want the customer's business and not lose money on it

GaryS · Jul 25, 2019

I agree gins the customer what they want but if you are looking for an alterative at a better price then I would look at Parker ACR 9000 series controller and just create a HMI in net studio. the ACR comes with the communications driver for the Net Studio and can handle remote I/O with Can Open communications
it's about the most cost effective way I have found I just competed as 5 axis machine using it and about to start 2 more with at least 6 axis
they do have very good tech support

rblunt · Jul 25, 2019

AustralIan said:
Do they even still do softlogix?

I think that kind of answers my question, maybe we just save on the HMI by using Ignition or Red Lion.

Archie · Jul 25, 2019

Over the years I have upgraded at least 9 systems that were SoftLogix5 and Softlogix5800 based. The reason for all the upgrades except for one was terrible reliability. I highly recommend to avoid at all costs the SoftLogix system.

If you are already comfortable with VB.NET, why not use AdvancedHMI ? It will cut out the HMI software cost.

rblunt · Jul 25, 2019

Archie said:
Over the years I have upgraded at least 9 systems that were SoftLogix5 and Softlogix5800 based. The reason for all the upgrades except for one was terrible reliability. I highly recommend to avoid at all costs the SoftLogix system.

If you are already comfortable with VB.NET, why not use AdvancedHMI ? It will cut out the HMI software cost.

I think I'm going to be stuck buying the Compactlogix, if it didn't have motion then a Micrologix would do the job. The HMI they might be flexible on as long as they can edit themselves easily, I'm not sure AdvancedHMI would be that, I think something like Ignition or Red Lion is more maintenance friendly

Ken Roach · Jul 25, 2019

How do you plan to do the hydraulic motion via POINT I/O ?

Is there a specialty module you plan to use, or just analog I/O ?

Is your hydraulic motion co-ordinated between axes or standalone ? High speed or slow ? High precision ?

How many of these machines are you going to build ?

Every SoftLogix system I've ever seen suffered from the designer's disdain for industrial hardware; it's run on whiteboxes with no care taken for networking or stability. I wouldn't consider it for a cost reason.

rblunt · Jul 26, 2019

Ken Roach said:
How do you plan to do the hydraulic motion via POINT I/O ?

Is there a specialty module you plan to use, or just analog I/O ?

Is your hydraulic motion co-ordinated between axes or standalone ? High speed or slow ? High precision ?

How many of these machines are you going to build ?

Every SoftLogix system I've ever seen suffered from the designer's disdain for industrial hardware; it's run on whiteboxes with no care taken for networking or stability. I wouldn't consider it for a cost reason.

Yes, I threw the softlogix away when I seen first reply here, and I kind of knew something was up when I went to look at documentation, didn't look very up to date.

I have 2 Hydraulic Axis that are set for positioning, max speed is 42mm/s, accuracy of the Sony Magnascale encoder tape is .01mm.

AB has suggested Point I/O part numbers 1734-IK for the encoders and 1734-OE2V for the proportional valves.

rblunt · Jul 31, 2019

I'm just starting to get into this, boss has said do it.

How do I tie the 1734-IK to 1734-OE2V? for positioning?

Do I use a PID loop? or is there a RSLogix instruction that specifically fits this scenario?

We haven't got A-B Studio yet, I'm just trying to verify technical guy isn't blowing smoke up my butt with a less than optimal setup.

Ken Roach · Jul 31, 2019

The POINT I/O counter and analog modules are not meant for closed-loop motion control. They can't be associated with an axis and are limited to relatively coarse update rates.

That doesn't mean they can't be used to control a hydraulic cylinder, especially a slow-moving one or one that doesn't require coordinated motion or high precison or repeatability. It just means they aren't designed to do it.

When I hear "hydraulic position control", I default to a dedicated purpose motion controller, and Delta's RMCs connect very well to A-B controllers.

rblunt · Jul 31, 2019

Ken Roach said:
The POINT I/O counter and analog modules are not meant for closed-loop motion control. They can't be associated with an axis and are limited to relatively coarse update rates.

That doesn't mean they can't be used to control a hydraulic cylinder, especially a slow-moving one or one that doesn't require coordinated motion or high precison or repeatability. It just means they aren't designed to do it.

When I hear "hydraulic position control", I default to a dedicated purpose motion controller, and Delta's RMCs connect very well to A-B controllers.

Yes, I spoke to Delta this morning, he pretty much echo'd what your are saying Ken, and what my "gut" was telling me.

I think, what we will do is a Micrologix with a Delta RMC75.

Our Beckhoff flavor of this machine is rock solid, and I'm aiming for same with the AB flavor.

thanks everybody for the advice/experience/thoughts

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