PV1000 standard with Logix L5X

Join Date
Oct 2008
Location
Perth, Western Australia
Posts
13
Hi,

I'm investigating the feasibility of communication between a old PV standard display and a logix L5X controller via the controller serial port.

We have multiple PV standard units available in excellent condition, so this is a worthwhile use of an available (obsolete) resource if it is possible.

The PV's are type 2711-K10C3. The communication protocol for these is DH-485 (i.e. DH485 over an RS485 physical layer).

Work by others with a 2711-K6C5 (which has a RS232 physical layer but uses the DH-485 protocol protocol) has shown that the communication is possible using SLC mapping in the L5X to "trick" it into thinking it is talking to a SLC and configuring the com ports on both the L5X controller and the PV to DH485. Here is a link to the white paper: http://folk.ntnu.no/skoge/prost/proceedings/afcon03/Papers/048.pdf

The obvious caveats are that the serial port on the processor is no longer available for programming or configuration and that only one PV can be used per controller.

So, my question is this: can I simply use an 485 to 232 converter to bridge the physical layer difference? Would an old 1761-NET-AIC work for this?

I do not have a non-production controller to experiment with and I have no intention of risking damage to one of the ones we have running factory plant by experimenting.

Any comments or advice greatly appreciated.
 
This is a good question, and your analysis is correct.

2711-K10C3 terminals have a DH485 network port with both the flat 8-pin "AMP" connector and the RJ45 connector, as well as an RS-232 port.

The RS-232 port can only be used for serial printing on these terminals; it cannot be used for runtime communication or for upload/download.

To upload/download to these terminals, you can use a Flash memory card (usually a FAT16-formatted CF card under 2 GB, in a Type II PCMCIA carrier), or you can use a USB/DH485 interface (1747-UIC or a purpose built clone).

The 1761-NET-AIC is the preferred RS485/RS232 interface for these because it correctly handles the handshaking and turnaround timing, just with the speed selector set to AUTO.

Real Time Automation makes a device that is "same ports, same pinouts" and is a direct replacement for the 1761-NET-AIC: 515AICPK50.

B&B (now Advantech Smartworx) also makes a compatible device: 485-DRCI.

You could give another general purpose RS485/RS232 converter a shot, but I'm not sure I could tell you exactly how to tune the automatic RTS/CTS detection.

The network configuration and data addressing methods are also correct: you will configure the ControlLogix serial port for DH-485. It makes sense to set up the ControlLogix as Node 0 and the PanelView as Node 1, and make the Maximum Node number 1, so that the devices don't waste time trying to pass the token to other devices.

You can configure INT[x] and REAL[x] arrays in the ControlLogix to emulate B, N, and F files that the PanelView can access.

You won't have the ability to emulate other data types, notably Strings and ASCII and Timers and Counters.

Back when I supported PanelView Standard connections to new ControlLogix, I would always help customers if they promised to let me do a conversion from PV Standard to PanelView Plus, to plan for when they wanted a feature that the Standard didn't have, or for when Standards were no longer available.
 
Hi Ken,
Thanks for your comprehensive reply.
You have confirmed my understanding that a 1761-NET-AIC is the best option for interfacing. I already understood that this was also obsolete and I'll take a look at the replacements you suggested.
My main concern is with accidentally damaging the RS232 serial port on the Logix controller (and by extension the rest of the unit). I have long ago experience of seriously damaging a SLC 5/03 by making an inappropriate connection to the Ch1 DH485 port (RJ45 socket) and want to make 100% sure I don't do something equally stupid to the RS232 port on the Logix controller. I'm looking for documentation on the correct cable from the Logix to a 1761-NET-AIC. As best I can tell, it needs to be fully wired F-F DB9 null-modem (i.e. including all the control signals) but I've come across some oddball interpretations of RS232 over the years and would very much like confirmation that the "standard" wiring is right before I go ahead.
I'm already pretty familiar with the method of communication between ControlLogics and SLC's, having set this up several times and I understand the array structure required and the type limitations.
I have a 1747-UIC and I have PanelBuilder32 for building and installing the PV application and I have experience with doing this over a DH485 network.
We moved to PV+ many years ago. The PV standard panels I'm using are the spares associated with a production line recently decommissioned. They are in near new condition (assuming the caps haven't died in storage). The project is to build a "backup rig" that can replace a damaged PV+ with basic functionality in an emergency, as PV+ have a lead time of several days where I am.
 
The good news is that the ControlLogix Channel 0 serial port is identical to the SLC-5/0x Channel 0 serial port; it's an ordinary RS-232 port with no non-standard power pins.

The 1761-NET-AIC user manual recommends the 1747-CP3 serial cable for connecting an SLC/ControlLogix serial port to the 1761-NET-AIC.

https://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/um/1761-um004_-en-p.pdf

I can tell you from experience that a null-modem cable that swaps Pins 2/3 and Pins 7/8 will work. The Pins 7 and 8 (RTS/CTS) provide the hardware handshaking that lets the Net-AIC use zero turnaround time for transmit detect on DH485.

There are no requirements to tie Pin 1 down or jumper any other pins.

Since you're equipped with a strong understanding of the PLC/SLC Mapping and its limitations, and a working knowledge of PanelView Standard's features and hardware, I think you're good to go.
 

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