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Old February 2nd, 2022, 10:02 AM   #16
Engineerj22
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As a guy that does 99% AB stuff, don't get an AB for this project. Too expensive for both the PLC and programming software. I bought a siemens trainer kit (in the before times, 2019) for about $600. Came with an s7-1200, TIA Portal basic license and a LCD HMI.

Heck, I just bought a Schneider M221 used for like 220$ and the software for it is free.

Find a used Weintek(Maple Systems) HMI if you need an HMI. Cheap and I think they made all their software free.
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Old February 2nd, 2022, 02:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineerj22 View Post
As a guy that does 99% AB stuff, don't get an AB for this project. Too expensive for both the PLC and programming software.
This. As the saying goes, you might find better than AB but you won't find more expensive. If cost is a primary concern (or secondary, or tertiary, or quaternary...) then look elsewhere.
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Old February 2nd, 2022, 03:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineerj22 View Post
As a guy that does 99% AB stuff, don't get an AB for this project. Too expensive for both the PLC and programming software. I bought a siemens trainer kit (in the before times, 2019) for about $600. Came with an s7-1200, TIA Portal basic license and a LCD HMI.

Heck, I just bought a Schneider M221 used for like 220$ and the software for it is free.

Find a used Weintek(Maple Systems) HMI if you need an HMI. Cheap and I think they made all their software free.
OK thanks for the experimented advice about AB, I won't go there.
I was thinking to Schneider. The M221 don't seems to be able to use MQTT, maybe I looked wrong. The M262 is "IoT" ready (MQTT) but 3 times the price of the M221.

Siemens S7-1200 seems to be more supported (community), parts are easilly findable in North America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by busarider29
Beckhoff has free engineering software (TwinCAT XAE).
Thanks but I would like to learn ladder programming to use it in other projects. Industrial PC looks interesting anyway, especially because I have computer programming formation.
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Old February 2nd, 2022, 04:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcej View Post
OK thanks for the experimented advice about AB, I won't go there.

With the possible exception of the Micro8xx line, which I assume A-B has to compete with the Clicks et al. Click base units are low cost, sure, but they may nickel and dime you for I/O (8 discrete outputs, 4-6 analog inputs) up to a price comparable to the Siemens. Micro820 may be right on the edge of what you want to do (7DOs, 4AIs).

I do not much like Micro8xx line, mainly because CCW software has such a "Fisher-Price" look and feel, but they do work, you can get RFE units on fleaBay for a C-note or two, and the basic software is a freebie. So that might work in this particular application, and even if it does not you've still got 80-90% of the budget plus some experience.
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Old February 2nd, 2022, 08:04 PM   #20
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AutomationDirect is probably your best bet for budget and easy entry. Bonus for just being able to go online and click buy, then call and someone answers the phone if you need help. You WILL NOT get that from RA. Their PLC's may not be quite as robust, but they're perfectly adequate. I've only lost one of them and that was a massive lightning strike that killed many other devices, and wiped the program from a C-More EA9 (but screen itself was fine with a reflash).

The Click works (and the Plus supports MQTT), but by the time you strap the extra I/O on and waste time programming with their limited instruction set, its probably worth moving to a BRX or Productivity 1000. Do-More has support for MQTT and a number of other protocols. It can be a bit janky to get used to IMO but very capable. PSuite is a bit nicer to work with (again IMO), fully tag-based and MQTT support will be out in the next release soon. Both DmD and Psuite support UDT's.
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Old February 2nd, 2022, 08:16 PM   #21
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Although there are many options, but Beginner should go with AutomationDirect Cmore and Productivity 1000, straight forward and easy to work with.

Do not use Allen Bradley, it will be your divorced wife and you will have to keep paying her for your rest of life.

Do not use Siemens, you need to get Siemens PHD to change a light bulb.

Do not use maple systems, it used to make 123 to 3&%035t*(?&*%&*(%$?&$?%*(&?()&**(&
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Old February 3rd, 2022, 04:28 AM   #22
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CoDeSys on a Raspberry, unbeatable bang for the buck for non mission-critical projects.


You can use almost anything as I/O, from adding "hats" that makes the onboard I/O:s useable,via Modbus RTU, Modbus TCP, CanOpen and even EtherCAT to some extent.
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Old February 3rd, 2022, 07:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecTek View Post
and Productivity 1000, straight forward and easy to work with.
One of the requirements is MQTT and I dont think the P1000 supports MQTT, he would need CLICK Plus or the BRX line if not using a gateway.
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Old February 3rd, 2022, 09:02 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by geniusintraining View Post
One of the requirements is MQTT and I dont think the P1000 supports MQTT, he would need CLICK Plus or the BRX line if not using a gateway.
V3.11 has support for MQTT and should be out soon,
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Old February 3rd, 2022, 09:07 AM   #25
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CoDeSys on a Raspberry, unbeatable bang for the buck for non mission-critical projects.
The industrial grade Rasp Pi that I linked to should be OK to use for mission critical applications. I suspect it is as good as any of the lower cost classical PLC brands.
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Old February 3rd, 2022, 09:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecTek View Post
Do not use Siemens, you need to get Siemens PHD to change a light bulb.

Do not use maple systems, it used to make 123 to 3&%035t*(?&*%&*(%$?&$?%*(&?()&**(&
I've had an easier time with Maple systems than with panelviews, and I've programmed way more panelviews. I will say I've worked with the newer MS screens however.

I didn't think the Siemens was difficult to learn. I went from playing around with the 1200 to a project to upgrade a plant with a 1500 with very few issues.

I've worked on few Cmores and I think they're also easier to use than panelviews.

@Drbitboy

I have a Micro850 I bought on fleabay for a song. They're ok, but I'm not a big fan of the software. I like the BRX and Do-More software.

Honestly, I like ABs ladder logic software (rslogix 5000 & Studio 5000). I hate the price though. One of the more "friendly" ladder logic I've seen.
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Old February 3rd, 2022, 11:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineerj22 View Post
@Drbitboy

I have a Micro850 I bought on fleabay for a song. They're ok, but I'm not a big fan of the software. I like the BRX and Do-More software.

Honestly, I like ABs ladder logic software (rslogix 5000 & Studio 5000). I hate the price though. One of the more "friendly" ladder logic I've seen.
+1 Agreed. With a little less I/O I would suggest MicroLogix 1100 and the freebie RSLogix Micro Starter Lite, but not MQTT of course.

RSLogix has an alternate mantra: you can't do it better or more expensive, haha.

RSlogix 500 UI is even better, but file-based vs. not tag-based.

Everything else, e.g. CCW, may work, and some are pretty powerful (Siemens), but their UIs are all just such a dog's breakfast.
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i) Take care of the bits, and the bytes will take care of themselves.
ii) There is no software problem that cannot be solved with another layer of indirection.
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v) I probably have the highest ratio of forum posts to actual applications in the field (∞).
vi) Hakuna matata.
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Old February 6th, 2022, 07:16 PM   #28
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Thank you all for your responses / suggestions !

So I am balancing between Siemens S7-1200 and AutomationDirect BRX (No I/O or 10 I/O version) + I/O modules which seems to meet all my technical and budget needs.
I think the price and availability will make the difference.

Should i take the chance to buy used ?
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Old February 7th, 2022, 08:16 AM   #29
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Should i take the chance to buy used ?
I would not... even though I sell (and buy) a lot of used, you are at the lower end all ready so being that the hardware is going to be your cheapest investment I would by new, both AD and Siemens are cheap enough.

You biggest investment is going to be your time that you spend learning to program them... why spend it troubleshooting equipment that is not working in the first place
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Old February 7th, 2022, 08:59 AM   #30
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If your between Siemens and the BRX. I would go BRX. Automation direct has their own community or forums and are extremely user friendly to beginners with advice and how-to. There's nothing wrong with the Siemens option I've got them all over the world but to start with I would dive head first into the AD ecosystem. I have a ton of the bottom of the barrel Click processors out there in some pretty rough environments and so far **knock on wood** they have lived through it all. I wouldn't hesitate to use any of their products for a one off or smaller project.

All that said when things get spread out and the scope starts to creep I fall right back into my GE/Emerson rut and go with an rx3i or like series processor.

For your project the AD stuff will do absolutely fine, and you can get your feet nice and wet with it.
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