Baldor Series22H Regen drive

We have an older Baldor drive connected to a motor that is a dyno. We currently have this connected to a test article that is just being driven along as a pump.
Currently the drive is configured as torque mode, with bi-polar +/-10V for the torque command. My system is outputing +/-10V to control the drive/motor in for either speed or torque. When i get to a higher speeds (about 3700rpm) I am only there for a few seconds before the drive faults out.

The drive faults are:
The converter is faulting with : PWR BASE FLT
The inverter side is faulting with: LINE REGEN FLT

As mentioned, this test article is being motored only. Due to the high speeds, and inertia, we are seeing very high torque spikes on the torque flange. I'm not sure if these spikes along with my output changing very fast (to attempt to control speed) is what is causing the drive to fault? Is the drive attempting to supply current back and forth too fast?

The current setup has the drive torque mode jumpered (so it always is in torque mode) and forward and reverse also jumpered.

Questions:
1. If I remove the torque mode jumper and run in speed control mode, is the analog signal (0-10V) equal to 0-Max motor speed reference to the drive? I did not seem to find anywhere that specfied the reference anywhere.

2. Does the forward and reverse need to be enabled for any reason? I'm guessing not correct? I never want to rotate in the reverse direction, but will at times need to regen a lot while spinning in the forward direction.


Any help?

I have changed over the drive by removing the torq mode jumper (now have relay to select). I have also removed the reverse enable jumper (so we will only rotate the "correct" direction).
The motor speed control now based on my analog output value (0-10V = 0-4400rpm).
Above 3500 or so rpm, the drive quickly faults with the same faults.
The converter is faulting with : PWR BASE FLT
The inverter side is faulting with: LINE REGEN FLT

what is the base speed of the motor or what's the number of poles
It would seem like you are running it over speed
if the base speed of the motor is 1750-1800 or so it looks like you are trying to run the vfd at 150 hz it may not be able to run that fast.
you did say that you only see the problem with motor speed over 3500 rpm
another thing only motor that at specially mays should be run over 3000 rmps.
I have seen them come apart above that.

Ok here is some actual information:
Motor Data Plate:

Here is information from inside drive:

Here is some of the settings from the drive. On the motor data for mag amps, this is the value that the drive found after doing auto tuning.

All I can say to that is wow
motor rated amps at 999 would be about 900HP for 480 volts
Motor mag amps of 431.99 would mean that just to magnetize the motor you need 431.99 amps that would mean about 400HP before you start.
something is clearly wrong here you need to fill in the motor data with the information you get from the motor name plate then run an auto tune with this information I am surprised you don't have more problems

GaryS said:

All I can say to that is wow
motor rated amps at 999 would be about 900HP for 480 volts
Motor mag amps of 431.99 would mean that just to magnetize the motor you need 431.99 amps that would mean about 400HP before you start.
something is clearly wrong here you need to fill in the motor data with the information you get from the motor name plate then run an auto tune with this information I am surprised you don't have more problems

Click to expand...

I have done that. The FLA motor data plate is 1030A, but the max I can put into the drive is 999.9. The 431 Mag amps was what the drive found after doing an autotune. This is a 735HP motor @1450RPM. The drive is a 600hp drive we are trying to use.

We are attempting to use this motor due to the higher max speed of 4465. We are going to be spinning a non-firing engine, so we will not need 600+hp.

I'm unable to get the motor to run even decoupled from the load at 3500+rpm.

that would be a six pole motor the base speed at 60 hz is 1200rmp if you run it a the 73 hz the speed would be 1450
the hp on the plate is 735 but the max amps is 1030 that would be way over the top with amps of 1030 you would be pulling abut 900 something is just not matching up

This is datasheet for a motor that is suppose to be the "same". I don't quite understand as it appears to be stating 73.2 and 90hz as full load data?

#######################################
NAME PLATE DATA

HP 735

RPM 1450-4465*

VOLTS 480 @ 90 HZ.

AMPS 1030*

FRAME FC580ZY

TYPE BAOAV

HZ 73.2-225

NEMA DES. SPL.

PHASE 3

CODE -

TEMP 30°C AMB

INS. CLASS H

DUTY CONT.

S.F. 1.0

CALCULATED DATA @ 390.4 VOLTS, 73.2 HZ, 125°C

FL EFF. (%) 93.8*

FL P.F. (%) 84.2*

BDT (%) 250

LRT (%) -

FLT (LB-FT) 2662

FLA 1026.7*

FL RPM 1450.1 (0.95% SLIP) *

NLA 378*

LRA 6650*

%SLIP @BD 4.6

MOTOR ELECTRICAL PARAMETERS @ 73.2 HZ, 125°C

R1 .0018 W*

X1 .026 W*

X2 .024 W*

R2 .0022 W*

XM 0.681 W*

RTR WK² 320 LB-FT²*

FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN INFO.

# POLES 6

ELEC. BASE HZ. 90 (480v)

OUTPUT BASE HZ. 73.2*

MAX. HZ. 225
#############################

The motor is clearly custom made for this application and from what I see the drive is custom as well
The drive is rated for 600hp 710 amps peak amps is shown as 1210 most drives don’t list the peak amps so it really doesn’t matter .
The motor is rated at 735 hp. (1.27 amp / hp would give to a FLA rating of 933 amps) but the data plate shows 1030 rated amps. I don’t know why they would list it that way.
From that I see the drive can’t supply the needed current for that motor
I don’t know where you got the 90hz from the motor clearly stated 73.2 hz that will give you 1,450 rpm. The max rpm rating of 4465 just means that you safely run the motor at that speed The drive is capable of delivering 500hz that’s not unusual most drive can deliver up to 600hz just because it deliver it doesn’t mean you should run that high
I noticed the insulation rating is class H that high temperature, generally that used for very slow speed at high load (Less cooling for the motor)
As its stated on the motor it’s a 6 pole motor, the base speed would be 1,150 rpm sync speed of 1,200 rpm at 60hz
Keep in mind that this is a vector drive, that means that there in mot motor slip as with a standard drive
You said that you only see the problem when you try to run over base speed (60hz)
Now much over remember the motor is only designed to run at 73hz when toy go much above tht you will draw more current the drive is already undersized for this motor. And I noticed that the motor FLA in the drive was never set correctly do drive doesn’t know how to deal with the load.
Proper set on any drive is very important I see a lot of drives that are never setup when installed

There is clearly something not quite right here I would recommend you contact both the motor and drive manufacture

We've had some success in getting this thing to run uncoupled now up to 4400rpm. Thanks to Gene Bond (same name on this forum), he recognized that the value the drive was finding for mag amps from the autotune was much too high. We changed the mag amps to 230A and it runs quite nicely now.
Now aslong as it stays running OK while coupled we will be in business.

Thanks again Gene.

There is some misinformation being given with reference to these special duty motors. There is also some data given that doesn't make sense to me.

What I can figure out is that this is a 6 pole motor with a base voltage of 480V, base frequency of 90hz, and base rpm of 1800rpm. Most of this can be calculated from the line that begins "calculated data." Maximum safe mechanical speed of the rotor occurs at 225hz and no-load.

What doesn't make sense to me is the statement "FL rpm 1450.1(0.95% slip). With a base speed of 1800rpm, base frequency of 90hz, and base voltage of 480V, The No-Load speed at 73.2hz calculates to 1450rpm and the voltage matches at 390V. But that is No-Load rpm, not the stated Full-Load rpm. The same line states .95% slip so the Full Load rpm would be 1450 x 99.05% = 1436rpm. Maybe that's what that line means--the Full Load rpms are AFTER doing the indicated math.

Calculating the base speed hp I get 1783 x 2662/5252 = 903 which is way above the stated value. If I take the stated FL Torque times the full load speed at 73.2hz, I get 735hp which matches the nameplate data. This tells me that, for some unknown mechanical reason, the torque above 73.2hz has to be proportionately reduced so the hp doesn't exceed 735hp. That's where a call to the mfgr would come in handy.

Just for clarity, the term "BD" and "BDT" refer to the maximum available short-term peak torque at the Break Down Torque or maximum point in the torque-speed curve.

I must say the manufacturer could have done a better job of clearly describing this motor. I don't see any particular error in the data but it surely does not communicate the facts very clearly.

Having given this odd motor some additional thought, I have the following additional observations:

Since the available continuous torque in induction motors is constant at all points below the base speed assuming a constant volts/hz ratio and adequate cooling, that would be the stated 2662 ft-lbs from 0rpm to 1800rpm. Except that the nameplate limits the hp to 735 which will permit 2662 ft-lbs only to 73.2hz. Above that speed and frequency, the torque is limited so 735hp is not exceeded. The torque curve above 73.2hz would be an inverse curve proportional to the overspeed.

The easiest way to get such an inverse curve would be to limit the voltage above 73.2hz to the value at 73.2hz, in this case 390V. That way the V/hz ratio would assume the profile of the inverse of the overspeed and the hp would hold constant at all points above 73.2hz on up to 225hz.

What seems useless and even misleading on this nameplate is the data indicating an "electrical base speed and voltage" of 480V and 90hz. What good is this information when what they call the "mechanical base speed and voltage" limits voltage to 390V and hz to 73.2hz?

As a result, a VFD on this motor should be set up with a maximum voltage of 390 and a base frequency of 73.2hz. Allowing this VFD to supply 480Volts under any conditions will result in a grossly overmagnetized motor with excessively high magnetizing current. I would be surprised if the VFD could build a proper motor model with a 480V max voltage and 90hz max frequency. Note that max frequency would need to be 225hz, not the base frequency. Base frequency as stated above would be 73.2hz.

I would be interested in the results when the VFD is set up as described above. Please let us know.

I've ran this drive with the specialty motor now against the load. Unfortunately, now that it is working, I don't get to mess with anymore (until the test is done).

Along with changing the motor mag amps, I had also put in the motor data as:
Motor Voltage: 365 V
Motor Rated Amps: 1030 A
Motor Rated Speed: 1464
Motor Rated Freq: 74

Attached is actual data info for this motor.