Home Automation

Sham · Nov 15, 2019

Hi All,

Have anyone of you used PLCs or products from companies like Schneider, Omron etc for home automation? How about if I want to connect 5 cctc cameras and have their live view on my phone? And an intruder alert? I guess PLC wont be able to handle the camera thing, but which other platform will be most reliable? Any experiences?

Thanks

rupej · Nov 15, 2019

I use wyzecam for home camera monitoring and alert. About $25 per camera over here, and zero monthly fees. Works well enough for my purposes.

A PLC isn't what you want for camera systems.

JaxGTO · Nov 15, 2019

I have an AutomationDirect 205 for my wife's shoe closet. Has 10 shelves with LED lights underneath. PLC sequences the lights on when you open the door. Then sequences them off/on every minute to remind you door is open. Then after 15 minutes it shuts itself off.

Also use an old PLC5 to run xmas lights. I have 8 zones with red/green/blue/white in each zone on separate outputs (32 outputs total)

As far as cameras we use Nest cameras. I have seen a camera multiplexer that used inputs to switch several cameras to a single output. It was driven by a Control Logix in a jail.

geniusintraining · Nov 16, 2019

I use to have many Ethernet cameras and running on one dedicated PC but I have now switched over to www.ring.com not sure if you can get them over there but they are great, I still have a alarm system (simplisafe) but the ring works great if you want to see whats going on, they have motion alerts, two way talking and recording and its all on their website/phone app

Aabeck · Nov 16, 2019

PLC's and camera's aren't a good match.

For home automation I have 4 SLC racks running:

Security lights in 5 rooms and the basement that don't act like they are on a timer
Flood detector that shuts off the house water
Motion detectors
Wired smoke detectors
Heat detectors
Solar battery monitoring with auto charging if too low
Air conditioner compressor power monitor of controlled (cheaper) meter and auto switchover when needed
Water heater undertemp
Outside outlets for battery charger, slow cooker, and air conditioner compressor service power
Multiple RTD's and T thermocouples monitoring everything I could
Incoming water pressure
Water flow to toilet with auto shutoff if runs too long
Electric blanket control, with Start relay added to the blankets controller
Lots and Lots of Christmas and Halloween lights (Christmas uses over 120 outputs and 4 analog outputs)

EDIT: and a Christmas tree that the dog chewed on that had its own SLC with 100 outputs.

With a simple AdvancedHMI setup on a Windows tablet and a dedicated AHMI computer setup that controls and monitors everything.

Now, thinking of putting a lock mechanism in the fence gates and locking them with a keypad for access.

Want to tie into washing machine and dryer and to monitor the cycle status from upstairs - these are too quiet to hear and the finished beeper can't be heard unless you are in the utility room with it.

roxusa · Nov 16, 2019

Cameras I use RIOLINK there is no notification but you can access on phone or laptop with app and check recording or see live. Micrologix running the security system door switches and motion detectors. HMI for arm/disarm and notifications. I have all closets wired with switch when door opens to turn on LED lighting and turn off in 3 minutes if door is left open. Smoke & CO2 Sensors are on alarm system. The plc is Ethernet and attached to small PC running RSLinx and interfaced to EX CELL to send email notifications.
Work in progress.

FactoryTalktotheHand · Nov 16, 2019

They'll work fine, but unless you can get them for basically nothing or are independently wealthy, they're not worth it. There are better product on the market, for less money.

Also, automating your house with PLCs could affect the resale value and could be something that costs you a lot of money in the long-run if you're asked to remove the system for the buyer before you sell. Years ago, my company moved into our current building and installed a half a million dollar Quantum PLC setup to automate it. Every light switch, light fixture, thermostat, RTD, Card reader, and HVAC unit was wired to the PLC. So in almost every office, the light switch is a PLC input and the light fixture a PLC output. Not direct wired at all. Most of the fixtures had analog dimming on them so almost every office is a digital input, digital output, analog input, and two analog outputs (one for the lights, one for the damper motor on the air vent).

Problem is, the building is now non-sellable. Nobody is going to buy a building run by a PLC. If my company ever sells, they're going to have to spend ANOTHER half million ripping the PLC cabinets out and rewiring the entire building.

A few cameras is no big deal but don't re-wire your house and run the whole thing off a PLC that only you know how to service, because if you ever sell (and eventually you or the loved ones who survive you will sell it), it's going to be a massive burden on top of everything else because you will most likely have to remove it all and re-wire the house back to normal. At least with a home automation system that is purpose-built, there's a company behind it that can support it.

Sham · Nov 17, 2019

Thanks everyone. The thing is actually that my boss is asking us to jump into Home Automation-and there is a client now who is asking for some cameras with live preview available on mobile, as well as an alarm system for any intrusions. We want to ensure that the system we provide is definitely the best i.e runs smoothly, is expandable and has the basic features since start.

One option is to design over very own application which can work with majority of cameras, and rest of the features will be alarm for intrusion, gate control via keypad with Ethernet access alongside audio n video, and controlling some lights and AC.

What are already existing reliable options along these lines? I have contacted the building services department of Schneider for this purpose as well, but so far no response. What do you guys suggest? We are very serious about this, and willing to spend a reasonable amount of resources on this.

AustralIan · Nov 17, 2019

There are probably 3 separate home automation customers I can think of.

1. I like gadgets. I want off the shelf solutions that I (or a qualified wire-puller electrician) can install myself with a simple to use user interface. Works out of the box. There's a phone number of someone I can yell at if something breaks.
2. I am a Tech Geek. I want to read a how to article, gather the necessary components and coble something together. I don't want to be tied to a particular vendor. I want to be able to expand it myself if no-one has implemented Feature A yet. I don't mind if something breaks from time to time, just means I get to have fun and tinker.
3. I spent AUD1,000,000 on my home, and I want to spend AUD20,000 automating it, and pay someone to service it.

For me, the PLC industry is great for 2 and 3. (And anywhere in-between)

Many of type 2 are reluctant to buy software and services (it is more fun to just write my own!). I think if you are serious about this, you need to set yourself up as the go to place in Oz for home automation. Is there one already? So this means selling off the shelf solutions (1. Above) like Bluetooth lightbulbs. You have to sell raspberry PIs. You have to sell some PLC IO that interfaces easily. You will probably need to give some how to articles that include a BOM (Bonus points if one-click can add all items to the cart). I think you need to emphasise how you can scale the reliability of these solutions.

Eg "this is how you would do it on a low budget, but using an IFM temperature sensor, you can see from the datasheet you have a MTTF of 10 years." ... "Now the raspberry PI isn't as robust. You can see if you use a WAGO PLC, your MTTF is now as seen in the datasheet. You can go even better and use this bad boy from Beckhoff. Same code, as they're all CODESYS underneath. But our parent company used this controller on [important Australian Project]." ... "Here we're using isolated analogs because ..."

Over here, WAGO seems to be big in PLC Home Automation. Their IO can be hooked up to a Raspberry Pi, or a PFC200.

CODESYS have just released their Automation Server to manage PLCs securely over the internet. It's the first release so there are a few nice features missing, like remote viewing of the built in HMI. They are pretty invested in it though, so it could soon be just the ticket for home automation.

AustralIan · Nov 17, 2019

I know CODESYS Pi has an IEC 61131-3 interface to OpenCV if you wanted to do any motion or image detection with your cameras. You can embed webpages of the cameras in the web visualization easily enough.

boneless · Nov 17, 2019

I am using home assistant for my own house, blue iris handles cameras, and home assistant picks the feeds up, as well as motion alerts etc.

It is an open source project, runs on raspberry pi, Ive got it running on a VM with ubuntu.

I love it, I am the geek that likes to make different stuff talk together. I can post some examples if you like.

JZerb · Nov 17, 2019

rupej said:
I use wyzecam for home camera monitoring and alert. About $25 per camera over here, and zero monthly fees. Works well enough for my purposes.

A PLC isn't what you want for camera systems.

so, those Wyzecam products seem SUPER nice for the price point. May i ask, do you have them setup in Apples Homekit with an RPI or do you just use the Wyze app for iOS or are you an Android user?

rupej · Nov 17, 2019

JZerb said:
so, those Wyzecam products seem SUPER nice for the price point. May i ask, do you have them setup in Apples Homekit with an RPI or do you just use the Wyze app for iOS or are you an Android user?

Yeah, to me they're the best bargain for that type of thing, to the point that I was a little suspicious at first. Ring may be a little more polished and have better hardware options, but the price is no comparison, especially no ongoing fees.

I'm an android user so I just use the wyze app. Seems to be pretty loaded with features. I do add a 32GB SD card to the cam to give continuous recording. The free online storage only saves the triggered recordings, so that's one very minor catch. $8 for that SD card.

Sham · Nov 17, 2019

AustralIan said:
There are probably 3 separate home automation customers I can think of.

1. I like gadgets. I want off the shelf solutions that I (or a qualified wire-puller electrician) can install myself with a simple to use user interface. Works out of the box. There's a phone number of someone I can yell at if something breaks.
2. I am a Tech Geek. I want to read a how to article, gather the necessary components and coble something together. I don't want to be tied to a particular vendor. I want to be able to expand it myself if no-one has implemented Feature A yet. I don't mind if something breaks from time to time, just means I get to have fun and tinker.
3. I spent AUD1,000,000 on my home, and I want to spend AUD20,000 automating it, and pay someone to service it.

For me, the PLC industry is great for 2 and 3. (And anywhere in-between)

Many of type 2 are reluctant to buy software and services (it is more fun to just write my own!). I think if you are serious about this, you need to set yourself up as the go to place in Oz for home automation. Is there one already? So this means selling off the shelf solutions (1. Above) like Bluetooth lightbulbs. You have to sell raspberry PIs. You have to sell some PLC IO that interfaces easily. You will probably need to give some how to articles that include a BOM (Bonus points if one-click can add all items to the cart). I think you need to emphasise how you can scale the reliability of these solutions.

Eg "this is how you would do it on a low budget, but using an IFM temperature sensor, you can see from the datasheet you have a MTTF of 10 years." ... "Now the raspberry PI isn't as robust. You can see if you use a WAGO PLC, your MTTF is now as seen in the datasheet. You can go even better and use this bad boy from Beckhoff. Same code, as they're all CODESYS underneath. But our parent company used this controller on [important Australian Project]." ... "Here we're using isolated analogs because ..."

Over here, WAGO seems to be big in PLC Home Automation. Their IO can be hooked up to a Raspberry Pi, or a PFC200.

CODESYS have just released their Automation Server to manage PLCs securely over the internet. It's the first release so there are a few nice features missing, like remote viewing of the built in HMI. They are pretty invested in it though, so it could soon be just the ticket for home automation.

The problem with Raspberry Pi is their reliability, mostly caused because of their SD card. Your thoughts?

I am looking for an extremely reliable solution, that is why I thought of using PLCs. I am sure that I can control lights and other appliances via PLC if I want to, but cameras are giving me tough time.

Sham · Nov 17, 2019

AustralIan said:
There are probably 3 separate home automation customers I can think of.

1. I like gadgets. I want off the shelf solutions that I (or a qualified wire-puller electrician) can install myself with a simple to use user interface. Works out of the box. There's a phone number of someone I can yell at if something breaks.
2. I am a Tech Geek. I want to read a how to article, gather the necessary components and coble something together. I don't want to be tied to a particular vendor. I want to be able to expand it myself if no-one has implemented Feature A yet. I don't mind if something breaks from time to time, just means I get to have fun and tinker.
3. I spent AUD1,000,000 on my home, and I want to spend AUD20,000 automating it, and pay someone to service it.

For me, the PLC industry is great for 2 and 3. (And anywhere in-between)

Many of type 2 are reluctant to buy software and services (it is more fun to just write my own!). I think if you are serious about this, you need to set yourself up as the go to place in Oz for home automation. Is there one already? So this means selling off the shelf solutions (1. Above) like Bluetooth lightbulbs. You have to sell raspberry PIs. You have to sell some PLC IO that interfaces easily. You will probably need to give some how to articles that include a BOM (Bonus points if one-click can add all items to the cart). I think you need to emphasise how you can scale the reliability of these solutions.

Eg "this is how you would do it on a low budget, but using an IFM temperature sensor, you can see from the datasheet you have a MTTF of 10 years." ... "Now the raspberry PI isn't as robust. You can see if you use a WAGO PLC, your MTTF is now as seen in the datasheet. You can go even better and use this bad boy from Beckhoff. Same code, as they're all CODESYS underneath. But our parent company used this controller on [important Australian Project]." ... "Here we're using isolated analogs because ..."

Over here, WAGO seems to be big in PLC Home Automation. Their IO can be hooked up to a Raspberry Pi, or a PFC200.

CODESYS have just released their Automation Server to manage PLCs securely over the internet. It's the first release so there are a few nice features missing, like remote viewing of the built in HMI. They are pretty invested in it though, so it could soon be just the ticket for home automation.

AustralIan said:
I know CODESYS Pi has an IEC 61131-3 interface to OpenCV if you wanted to do any motion or image detection with your cameras. You can embed webpages of the cameras in the web visualization easily enough.

Have you ever used it? Reliable enough?

Home Automation

Sham

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rupej

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JaxGTO

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geniusintraining

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Aabeck

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roxusa

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FactoryTalktotheHand

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Sham

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AustralIan

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AustralIan

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boneless

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JZerb

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rupej

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Sham

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Sham

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