We have a customer wanting us to quote a welding line using only automation direct CPU for servo controls. We are traditionally a Siemens and AB house but our customer is butt hurt on they way they price their software/hardware etc. Does anybody have any experience doing motion applications on Automation direct? We are nervous about the quality and the ability.
anybody done motion applications with Automation Direct?
- Thread starter 0949er
- Start date
widelto
Member
I´d like to, I want to, but in this case I prefer to wait, see and hear what people who have tried have to tell.
Peter Nachtwey
Member
Another disaster waiting to happen. You need to use a servo controller.
I wrote some threads a year or two back saying why using PLCs directly is not a good idea.
Your customer has no idea. I think AD has some servo controllers that can be talked to over Ethernet. If he doesn't want to go with that then walk away. Also, I would walk away if the motion is not simple.
For instance. If the motion must follow an arbitrary curve and maintain a constant feed speed. The math is not for beginners and certainly not for AD PLCs
We wait until the project fails and then they come to us after wasting much time and money.
Wasn't Paula's "Learning by doing" 700+ post thread using an AD PLC?
That should have been done in the first day.
I wrote some threads a year or two back saying why using PLCs directly is not a good idea.
Your customer has no idea. I think AD has some servo controllers that can be talked to over Ethernet. If he doesn't want to go with that then walk away. Also, I would walk away if the motion is not simple.
For instance. If the motion must follow an arbitrary curve and maintain a constant feed speed. The math is not for beginners and certainly not for AD PLCs
We wait until the project fails and then they come to us after wasting much time and money.
Wasn't Paula's "Learning by doing" 700+ post thread using an AD PLC?
That should have been done in the first day.
Phrog30
Member
I believe Omron motion is done in the PLC. They have success, of course, the scan times are close to what a servo controller is (from what I have heard).
AD doesn't scream quality in my opinion. Sounds like a no-bid to me.
AD doesn't scream quality in my opinion. Sounds like a no-bid to me.
The application is simple enough for us; simple or enough for the PLC is a different question. we have YEARS of experience on AB and Siemens platform for motion control... we have 0 years on Automation direct.
At this point we are going to offer a T&E contract with some heavy verbage on going against our recommendations. If the guy wants to pay for a science project who are we to say no? hah.
Peter Nachtwey
Member
Omron bought out Delta Tau Data Systems. Omron has motion control cards.I believe Omron motion is done in the PLC. They have success, of course, the scan times are close to what a servo controller is (from what I have heard).
AD doesn't scream quality in my opinion. Sounds like a no-bid to me.
@0949er, time and materials is the way to go.
The problem is that writing the target generator takes a lot of work unless that feature is somehow built in. The next problem is varying scan times. This is a killer when scans must be fast because it makes impossible to use the derivative gain. Servo motor position control systems should use a full PID whereas a velocity control system can get by with a PI controller.
Also, there is no auto tuning.
Last edited:
Phrog30
Member
I was told that the NJ PLC (for example) did motion in the PLC and there was no dedicated processor for it. Using EtherCat and the PLCs fast scan time that it is fast enough. Not an Omron user so I don't know how accurate that was. I wasn't referring to servo controllers.
Steve Bailey
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
I've done three motion control jobs with Automation Direct. Two of them used a CTRIO module and Sure Stepper drives. The other used a Sure Servo drive. All three were successful.
If you're trying to do motion control with a PLC analog output sending a velocity command to a VFD, you'll likely be disappointed with the results.
If you're trying to do motion control with a PLC analog output sending a velocity command to a VFD, you'll likely be disappointed with the results.
Peter Nachtwey
Member
It is possible. Delta Tau has a reputation for high end motion control and the difference between a PLC and motion controller can become blurred. For instance our controller is often used stand alone without a PLC. Just a connected HMI like a C-more display. However, any Omron PLC that can do motion is in a separate price class.
The think to check for is the scan rate. Consistency of the scan rate. The speed of the inputs and outputs relative to the scan rate, the target generator, and auto tuning.
Similar Topics
I am getting conflicting answers on this...
I would like to use a 1768-ENBT as a rack adaptor for a distributed rack of 1769 I/O. I searched the...
I am trying to connect with a Schneider plc which has a firmware version only available in Somachine v4.2. In Machine expert After taking upload...
Hi All,
At work we primarily use Rockwell products and they are pretty good to work with and rock solid for industrial environments. A little...
11 months ago I ordered a 10" Redlion HMI. I was given an April delivery date. April came and went. I waited, and in June I asked our vendor...
If I want to think about PLCs, I come here. For Home Automation there are various good forums. When Mum was alive, I had two or three...