First Program

I been doing this for 31 years lol
Its all the same 0-4095, 0-30840 0-170 RPM
Output signal is not relevant, 0-12 0-10
not relevant
the card deal in digital counts not voltage or current
lets say the cards output is 4-20ma
has nothing to do with the programming
to have 4 ma output you put a value of 0
to the channel, to have 20ma you put 30840
to the channel, scale the count to match RPM
of the motor. In forty years of doing this I have never seen a 170 RPM motor, it is more like 0-1175, or 0-1775 integrated into a gear box to produce the 170 RPM at the output shaft.
Sounds like you all are over complicating this, and he need
to take a basic PLC training course, or hire someone to write
the simple snipit. To have any motor run at a true
170 RPM max would require extreme current to produce
any torque at all and a massive VFD.
 
I been doing this for 31 years lol
Its all the same 0-4095, 0-30840 0-170 RPM
Output signal is not relevant, 0-12 0-10
not relevant
the card deal in digital counts not voltage or current
lets say the cards output is 4-20ma
has nothing to do with the programming
Well, I have been doing it a lot longer than 31 years, long before VFDs were invented, back when DC Drives were used a lot, and I say all the above items ARE relevant. Without knowing what range is being used (or even if an analog card is being used) then there is no way to scale the output. That is why I did not include the scaling in my program - no way to know how to scale it, or for what range, or for what Min and Max RPM.
To have any motor run at a true 170 RPM max would require extreme current to produce any torque at all and a massive VFD.
Unless it is a DC Motor with a DC Drive. There are plenty of those with low range RPMs. Hey, wait, that is what Andrew said it was, a DC Drive, which is not anywhere close to being your "VFD". It could even be a Bodine 33A-5R, 50-200 RPM gearmotor like the one in the attached link. Since you have never seen one in 40 years, please take a look so you will know about low RPM DC motors the next time!

http://www.bodinedirect.com/category.sc?categoryId=90.
 
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Lol

PLC's did not exist before 1979 unless you used punch
cards like I did.
So a lot longer is not posible.
One of the people who worked on the first PLC project was Dick Morley, who is considered to be the "father" of the PLC. The Modicon brand was sold in 1977 to Gould Electronics, and later acquired by German Company AEG and then by French Schneider Electric, the current owner.
As I started programming in 1979, your statement of doing it a lot longer is a little hard to take.
 
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As I started programming in 1979, your statement of doing it a lot longer is a little hard to take.
I started programming in 1971, but I was not talking about programming, but the use of DC Drives, where you seem to be off a little. Using DC Drives was one of the main ways of speed control before the AC motor VFDs were invented much later. A DC Drive is a different animal than a VFD. Back in those days of the 1960s, there were a multitude of DC Motors available, from 1/12 HP and up, in about any speed range needed. There still are a fairly wide variety of low-RPM small DC motors available for use on damper controls and motor-operated valves, also for model cars, trains, and other toys.
 
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Hey there asterof, thanks for what I believe was to be helping, but all you are doing is cluttering up this thread even more. I have never programmed anything in my life, besides what I was taught in some basic PLC classess through school. Lancie throughout the day took the time to assist me, and noone on here has to prove themselves to you my friend. So instead of trying to measure or compare who has done what asterof, if ya wanna help then awesome, if not, dont use my thread to poke back and forth over who has done what. Were all grown here. Thanks again for the help lancie
 
Ok lancie I wrote the program. It took about 100
to write a program that controlled 5 different motors {extruders} to go from 0 up to the first set of desired rpms, then ramp to the next etc etc. I assumingly used subtract instead of add when I needed to go down on the rpm's. My only concern is the scaling here. I used just raw numbers. 0-170 rpm. So what I need to ensure proper scaling with the Eurotherm Drive is what PLC output i am using? I am not using any additonal cards etc. Just the MicroLogix and its inputs and outputs that came on the processor. Do I need to scale the RPM to the output of the drive to motor, plc to drive, or what.
 
So what I need to ensure proper scaling with the Eurotherm Drive is what PLC output i am using?
Yes, first you need a copy of the Eurotherm DC Drive User Manual. I searched and found Eurotherm User Manuals here (Models ER-340i / ER-680i / ER-1220i in DC drive product manual HG102938):

http://www.eurotherm.co.uk/download...13385=6401&search=Motor+Drive&searchcontent=1

but not the "Series 529". That may be an old no-longer-produced model, or it may have another model number. It appears that the Eurotherm DC Motor Drives do have a 0-to-10 Volt DC voltage potentiometer input for the Motor Speed Reference Input. There are two ways to input the speed setpoint: on drive terminals 2 (0 volts DC) and 3 (10 Volts DC maxium); or on a Ramp Input (terminal numbers for Ramp Speed Input varies with model of Eurotherm DC Drive). For the normal Terminal 2-3 Speed Input, you would use the PLC to control the Ramp Time as in my previous program. For the Ramp Speed Input, you set the ramp time with internal drive programmable parameters, then input the max speed that the ramp stops at.

I am not using any additonal cards etc. Just the MicroLogix and its inputs and outputs that came on the processor.
I do not think you would have any analog outputs available with "what came on the processor". The best I know, the MicroLogix 1500 has slots for add-on modules, and I think you will need an analog output module to allow sending a scaled speed signal to the Eurotherm DC Drive. To know what your MicroLogix 1500 has, look for the original PLC model number, which then can be looked up on the Allen Bradley site at

http://www.rockwellautomation.com/products/

I suggest downloading a copy of the MicroLogix 1500 User Manual, Bulletin 1764. This manual shows that the 1500 normally is solde with only digital outputs, so you will not have an analog output unless you add an Analog Output Expansion Module. That is now your most important task, to determine HOW to get the speed signal to the Eurotherm.

Now, on many VFD AC Drives, there are digital terminal inputs that allow sending preset digital (on/off) speed control signals, but the best I can determine, the Eurotherm DC Drvies DO NOT have any preset speed input terminals. You need to verify that by getting a copy of the manual for the Eurotherm drives that you have.

Do I need to scale the RPM to the output of the drive to motor, plc to drive, or what?
Yes, you will need to do scaling. If you do manage to procure a MircoLogix 1500 Analog Ouput module, then you would use that to send your scaled speed signal to the Eurotherm drive. I think you would need to use the 0-to-10 VDC range, so if you use the Engineering Units setting for the MicroLogix 1769-OF2 Analog Output module, you would scale your speed output (O:4.0 in my last sample program, 0 to 39 RPM) to the digital count range of 0 to 10000. I can give you the scaling equations for that, if needed. You would just add two more rungs (one for each time your send a number to your DC Drive) to the end of the program and use the SCP(Scale with Parameters) instruction, which is available on the MicroLogix 1500 PLC. For the SCP instruction, and for a RPM range of 0-39 RPM, your SCP parameters would be:

Input: use a suitable memory location instead of the existing Output O:4.0 (N7:0 to N7:255 can be used here).

Input Min: "0"

Input Max: "39"

Scaled Min: "0" (This is a digital number that will produce a 0 VDC output at the analog output terminal).

Scaled Max: "10000" (This is a digital number that will produce a 10 VDC output at the analog output terminal).

Output: O:4.0 (the location of your 1769-OF2 Analog Output. If you do not use Slot 4 for your analog output module (Slot 1 will be the first expansion module slot), then change the address to the actual slot used by replacing the "4" in the O:4.0 address. The "4" is the module channel output number, 0 being the first analog output number).

With the above parameters, the SCP instruction will take your Ramp numbers and pass then to the Eurotherm DC Drive speed input terminals. For example, if your send "39" to the input of your SCP instruction, then the Output will be computed to be "10000" (or 10 volts).

SOMETHING TO CHECK: Find out what RPM your motors are actually running. If these are DC gearmotors, then most likely the motor is running much faster than the motor gear-reduced output speed. The PLC probably needs to use the actual motor speed range (not the geared output range). The only exception would be if the DC Drives are programmed to take the gear-reduction ratio into account on their speed input range. You can compute the actual motor speed range if you find the gear-reduction ratio (assuming that these are gearmotors).
 
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OK, so let me understand this. You are saying if I have an analog module I just SCP with 0-10000 using inputs 2 and 3? What if worse comes to worse and I dont have an analog module and have to use the digital output? Is my ramping program a waste? I put alot of time in that, not probably as much as you have helping me ha, so I hope its not a waste! SO first things first, i need to see if an analog module is available.So again my question being is this example you gave of an SCP is if i have an analog output module? Correc? And if I dont, how much am I gonna have to backtrack? My program is just ramping each motor as you suggested, using comparators for when it gets LEQ or GEQ to my RPM, using add or subtract depending on where I need to go up or down, and then latching the bit and starting a 60 sec timer. How far off am I with this. Im starting to understand alot better though. So youre not wasting youre time!! THanks lancie, and yasarkhi, for the polite comment
 
And the SCP with 0-10000 as you said is 10000 being max rpm for that cycle and 0 obviously 0. SO i guess there would be all new SCP for each cycle since my max rpm changes? And again, without the analog module, where do I stand
 
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What if worse comes to worse and I dont have an analog module and have to use the digital output?
The only way I know of control a drive without an analog output is if your drives have preset digital speed input terminals (still not a good solution for what you want to do but would work half-axxed). However, the best I can find, your Eurotherm DC Drives probably do not have preset speed terminals.

If you do procure some analog modules, remember that you will need at least one analog output for each DC motor drive.

And again, without the analog module, where do I stand
Up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

So again my question being is this example you gave of an SCP is if i have an analog output module? Correc?
Yes.
And if I dont, how much am I gonna have to backtrack?
You will not need to back-track, because you probably wiil not be able to control the speed of the DC Drives.

Question for you now: How is the speed of the drives controlled right now, before your progtram is installed?
 
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