Logix Designer + View Designer Alarms

Hi,

I want to use Alarms with my HMI screen, the software I'm using is Logix Designer v32 and View Designer.

Usually on a PLC I would used Tag Based alarms, and for instance with Siemens there is an alarm manager where you can associate a string to show when this particular bit is set high...

I've used factory talk before and it works in a very similar manner.

Now with view designer, I see I can use the ALMD instruction, but because I want a vast amount of alarms it will require a huge amount of memory, also the PLC I'm using doesn't appear to support the tag based alarm settings. So to use the inbuilt alarm manager it looks like I will have to use the ALMD instruction.

Is this assumption correct? I will have to build my own alarm manager if this is the case.

PLC I'm using is 1769-L33ERMS

Thanks

If anyone Googles this and needs an answer -

You can't use tag based alarms with some PLCs, such a basic fundamental feature is missing, because Rockwell are a dreadful company.

You spend nearly £3k on a PLC and £1.5k on a HMI and you can't used Tag Based alarms!

Jackllx said:

If anyone Googles this and needs an answer -

You can't use tag based alarms with some PLCs, such a basic fundamental feature is missing, because Rockwell are a dreadful company.

You spend nearly £3k on a PLC and £1.5k on a HMI and you can't used Tag Based alarms!

Click to expand...

Yeah, seems like the tag based alarming, and most new features, are available more on the newer L8 processors. This guide here has more about the tag-based server alarms architecture.

Hi & Welcome to the Forum!

ID: QA59579 | Access Levels: Everyone
Logix 5000 Controller that supports Tag-Based Alarm

Jackllx said:

...such a basic fundamental feature is missing, because Rockwell are a dreadful company...

Click to expand...

I'm not coming down on you, as you are new to at least posting here, and I'm also not necessarily a defender of Rockwell at all costs, but I will say this, respectfully...

The new Tag-Based Alarm feature was introduced with the latest family of 5x80 controllers. It was not available when the 5x70 controllers were released, such as your 5370 CompactLogix 1769-L33ERMS. It was not a "fundamental" feature within the RA/AB world. It is a bespoke feature added by Rockwell at a particular point within their product timeline and, unfortunately, after the point where your controller of choice lies. We could argue about whether they should have had it available sooner, or not, but that does not detract from the fact that you chose your controller. If such a fundamental feature was so important to your application, and it does sound like it was/is, then perhaps you should have looked further into this before deciding on the slightly older model? It was your own choice, was it not? I'm not trying to throw egg on your face but I feel it's a bit unfair blaming them here when all they are trying to do is continuously improve their products going forward.

I would always advise users, whether they know in advance of a feature they wish to use, or not, to look into the features available for the potential equipment they wish to use. You never know when something surprising might pop up and make you think "Oh, I didn't know it supports this?"...or..."It doesn't support that?"

But to be specific on this feature - I typed the search term "best controller for tag-based alarming" on the Knowledgebase and the above technote was the first hit.

Regards,
George

Geospark said:

Hi & Welcome to the Forum!

ID: QA59579 | Access Levels: Everyone
Logix 5000 Controller that supports Tag-Based Alarm



I'm not coming down on you, as you are new to at least posting here, and I'm also not necessarily a defender of Rockwell at all costs, but I will say this, respectfully...

The new Tag-Based Alarm feature was introduced with the latest family of 5x80 controllers. It was not available when the 5x70 controllers were released, such as your 5370 CompactLogix 1769-L33ERMS. It was not a "fundamental" feature within the RA/AB world. It is a bespoke feature added by Rockwell at a particular point within their product timeline and, unfortunately, after the point where your controller of choice lies. We could argue about whether they should have had it available sooner, or not, but that does not detract from the fact that you chose your controller. If such a fundamental feature was so important to your application, and it does sound like it was/is, then perhaps you should have looked further into this before deciding on the slightly older model? It was your own choice, was it not? I'm not trying to throw egg on your face but I feel it's a bit unfair blaming them here when all they are trying to do is continuously improve their products going forward.

I would always advise users, whether they know in advance of a feature they wish to use, or not, to look into the features available for the potential equipment they wish to use. You never know when something surprising might pop up and make you think "Oh, I didn't know it supports this?"...or..."It doesn't support that?"

But to be specific on this feature - I typed the search term "best controller for tag-based alarming" on the Knowledgebase and the above technote was the first hit.

Regards,
George

Click to expand...

It's a basic fundamental feature in *every* other HMI and PLC brand.

Even cheapo Weintek screens you can trigger a bit and the the built in alarm manager will display the message and time etc which you want to display.

In FactoryTalk View you could assign an alarm bit and then that bit will trigger the internal (terrible) alarm manager, with date and time and whatever message you want to display, so in View Designer, the supposed flagship software they have removed this functionality.

I've used nearly every brand of PLC and HMI over the past 10 years, and there has never been an instance where I can not use tag based alarming.

Having to check for such basic capability is like buying a car and having to check that is has an accelerator pedal.

You can buy a Siemens S7-1200 and a KTP700 for 1/10th of the price and it has this functionality.

Jackllx said:

It's a basic fundamental feature in *every* other HMI and PLC brand...

Click to expand...

See, now you are starting that argument I said we "could" have. I did not say it was not a fundamental feature within the PLC world. I said...

Geospark said:

...It was not a "fundamental" feature within the RA/AB world...

Click to expand...

Again, we can argue about whether or not they should have had it all along since "whenever". I'm not here for that argument, though. Or any argument, really. They did not have it available for the controller you chose. If you assumed they surely had it based on your previous experience, then, the least I will say is "that is unfortunate".

Back in the day, I didn't buy every car assuming it surely had power steering, even though it may have been common place at that time. You'd have to check or be told if the model of interest came with it, or not.

Regards,
George

Geospark said:

See, now you are starting that argument I said we "could" have. I did not say it was not a fundamental feature within the PLC world. I said...



Again, we can argue about whether or not they should have had it all along since "whenever". I'm not here for that argument, though. Or any argument, really. They did not have it available for the controller you chose. If you assumed they surely had it based on your previous experience, then, the least I will say is "that is unfortunate".

Back in the day, I didn't buy every car assuming it surely had power steering, even though it may have been common place at that time. You'd have to check or be told if the model of interest came with it, or not.

Regards,
George

Click to expand...

It's not so much the PLC that's the issue, its that the HMI alarm manager does not let you trigger alarms based on tags/bits, and forces you to use the built in alarms.

In my case, the PLC and HMI combo together can not do this basic functionality. This is their flagship HMI!

As you say - I should have checked, and in future I will be checking all functionality for everything Rockwell. It's a shame that such expensive hardware and software is lacking in comparison to other vendors.

You are correct that back in the day you wouldn't assume a car had power steering, however in 2021 you would think that a brand new car does

A false equivalence may cause ambivalence?...

Jackllx said:

It's not so much the PLC that's the issue, its that the HMI alarm manager does not let you trigger alarms based on tags/bits, and forces you to use the built in alarms.

In my case, the PLC and HMI combo together can not do this basic functionality. This is their flagship HMI!...

Click to expand...

FYI - Support for Logix Tag-based alarming was added in v5.x of Studio 5000 View Designer and v5.xxx firmware for the PanelView 5000 terminals.

Jackllx said:

...As you say - I should have checked, and in future I will be checking all functionality for everything Rockwell. It's a shame that such expensive hardware and software is lacking in comparison to other vendors...

Click to expand...

I suppose what I'm really saying to you is just that. Learn from this by accepting that you did make an oversight here. A genuine, honest oversight. But an oversight nonetheless.

Jackllx said:

...You are correct that back in the day you wouldn't assume a car had power steering, however in 2021 you would think that a brand new car does

Click to expand...

This is a false equivalence and might also explain why you had made your error in choosing? Back in the day, the car I was choosing was brand new and not several years old. If you are assuming the CompactLogix 5370 family of controllers are brand new, state-of-the-art, by 2021 standards, then you are a bit wide of the mark?

The initial release date for the 5370 CompactLogix controllers, at firmware revision 21, was January of 2012. This family is heading for 10 years on the market. Quite an age in the general cadence of controller updates. The 5370 Compact GuardLogix, including your 1769-L33ERMS, were later release in February of 2016, at firmware revision 28, making them over 5 years old. So, as you can see, these are not brand new models in 2021, as you seem to have implied.

Your false equivalence may be causing your ambivalence?

Regards,
George

Geospark said:

FYI - Support for Logix Tag-based alarming was added in v5.x of Studio 5000 View Designer and v5.xxx firmware for the PanelView 5000 terminals.



I suppose what I'm really saying to you is just that. Learn from this by accepting that you did make an oversight here. A genuine, honest oversight. But an oversight nonetheless.



This is a false equivalence and might also explain why you had made your error in choosing? Back in the day, the car I was choosing was brand new and not several years old. If you are assuming the CompactLogix 5370 family of controllers are brand new, state-of-the-art, by 2021 standards, then you are a bit wide of the mark?

The initial release date for the 5370 CompactLogix controllers, at firmware revision 21, was January of 2012. This family is heading for 10 years on the market. Quite an age in the general cadence of controller updates. The 5370 Compact GuardLogix, including your 1769-L33ERMS, were later release in February of 2016, at firmware revision 28, making them over 5 years old. So, as you can see, these are not brand new models in 2021, as you seem to have implied.

Your false equivalence may be causing your ambivalence?

Regards,
George

Click to expand...

Keep drinking that Rockwell kool-aid, George! You are defending the indefensible.

I would expect a car manufactured in 2012 to have power steering, maybe you're used to horse and carriage so even having a combustion engine is a bonus?

You can stop replying now, Rockwell worship is not welcome

Jackllx said:

Keep drinking that Rockwell kool-aid, George! You are defending the indefensible.

I would expect a car manufactured in 2012 to have power steering, maybe you're used to horse and carriage so even having a combustion engine is a bonus?

You can stop replying now, Rockwell worship is not welcome

Click to expand...

"Oh I'll just look for internet validation when I can't achieve my niche objective because of mistakes of my own". Then bash people trying to help others free of cost, online.

It's Friday evening and maybe you are right?

Time to crank up the furnace and steam my way home...

Have a good weekend and again, Welcome to the Forum!

Regards,
George

PreLC said:

"Oh I'll just look for internet validation when I can't achieve my niche objective because of mistakes of my own". Then bash people trying to help others free of cost, online.

Click to expand...

Could you point to me where the poster I was replying to was trying to help in any way?


I had no responses, so replied to my own thread to answer anyone facing the same question in future.


If you have nothing constructive to say, then don't say it.



PS, in the real automation world, alarming is not niche. You might learn that one day.

Public advice is best discerned by the public...

That's the beauty of a public forum. I can't tell you to stop Rockwell "bashing" and you can't tell me to stop Rockwell "worshipping". You may have started this thread but you don't own it.

You posed a question, received no reply, and then found an answer and returned, unselfishly, to impart your findings. For that I applaud you. Many do not return. However, you also brought a gripe. One I feel is unfairly apportioned. All I suggested is you consider, and anyone else in a similar situation, researching the choices a bit better so you may make a more informed choice. Something you have agreed with, in part. So I'm happy my suggestion got through to some degree. But that is there for all readers to consider now, and not just for you and how you may have taken it. Others may take this advice as intended. As constructive.

Those of us who choose to contribute, and that now includes yourself, do so, in the main, for the good of all, and not just for the opening poster, affectionately referred to as the "OP". That is, of course, you here.

Your assertion that no other constructive help or advice was dispensed here, other than your information, may be your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I would point out, and apart from my "advice", that I also included a link to a technote article which lists the controllers which currently support tag-based alarming. This, I feel, compliments and expands upon your statement on only "some PLCs" supporting this feature. I point this out not as self praise but as a further demonstration of how this forum works. You may not notice these things, but others do. Others will.

That link, along with this thread, may possibly be viewed many thousands of times in the years to come. But it is those viewing it that will decide what is helpful, what is constructive, not you or I.

Public advice is best discerned by the public.

Regards,
George

Interesting thread.

I was not aware that the "new" PanelViews that are programmed with Logix Designer can not do basic tag-based alarms. I have to say I am as surprised as the OP was.

I try to program my PLCs using standardized code that works for any HMI. Being forced to use ALMx instructions for the new PanelView will break convention, and can't be used on other HMIs so will require a lot of custom code if ever connected to a different HMI or SCADA system in the future.

I'm fairly disappointed.

Hi rupej,

rupej said:

...I was not aware that the "new" PanelViews that are programmed with Logix Designer can not do basic tag-based alarms...I'm fairly disappointed.

Click to expand...

If you are referring to the PanelView 5000 terminals, you may have missed my earlier comment...

Geospark said:

...Support for Logix Tag-based alarming was added in v5.x of Studio 5000 View Designer and v5.xxx firmware for the PanelView 5000 terminals.

Click to expand...

PanelView 5000 firmware revision 5 supports up to 4000 Logix-based alarms in a single Logix controller if you use Studio 5000 View Designer v5 and Studio 5000 Logix Designer v32 or higher. For a single Logix controller, of the 4000 alarms, it is recommended that a maximum of 3000 alarms should be tag-based and 1000 instruction-based. Up to 4 Logix controllers may be used with a single PanelView 5000 terminal with 1000 alarms each, with any combination of either instruction-based or tag-based alarms.

Regards,
George